Winter Diesel Concerns & Issues
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There is no fuel pre heater. I'm 99% sure. There is a heated fuel filter that is referred to in the sales literature but this is really just passive heating. In other words, the fuel return line is heated by the engine and pumps and by radiant heating. The return line passes through the fuel filter and that warms it. This has been the case for a long time. So if the fuel is close to gelling the fuel filter won't get clogged. After a long drive the return line fuel also warms up the fuel in the fuel tank.
If you're really concerned then you can add an electric coolant heater. You tap the coolant line to install it and plug it into an electrical outlet to use it.
I had to look this up, according to wikipedia regular diesel could get as high as 5oF, winterized fuel should handle -20oF. 32oF is freezing. 5oF is -15oC.
If you're really concerned then you can add an electric coolant heater. You tap the coolant line to install it and plug it into an electrical outlet to use it.
I had to look this up, according to wikipedia regular diesel could get as high as 5oF, winterized fuel should handle -20oF. 32oF is freezing. 5oF is -15oC.
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Of course you should be concerned. Not all fuel is adequately winterized, and the next four weeks are a very dangerous period because some stations may still have fuel blended for October and you may get a January-like cold snap.
There are many products designed to prevent fuel gelling. No one would buy them, there would not be so many on the shelves, if all fuel was adequately winterized when it was delivered to the stations.
After getting stranded with my '99 Beetle TDI once a year for the first three years, I always added fuel conditioner from November to mid March. I'm in central PA, but live in a very rural area. Temperatures when this would occur would typically be -5 to +15°F.
It would always catch me by surprise, because the car would start - and then come to a halt about 2 miles from my house...
I all ready have a jug of conditioner in the rear cargo side hatch of my 2010 Jetta Sportswagen.
hard starting during cold weather.
A related issue with some diesel engines is hard cold weather starting. A trick that usually works is to crank the engine over for about 10 or 15 seconds, and if it dosen't fire up let it rest for 20-30 seconds and then try again. The air in the cylinders will have been heated by being compressed and that heat will warm the cylinders and pistons slightly which is often enough to get it going. Do NOT use either starting fluid unless it is an extreme emergency, it could blow a head gasket. Ronny
A related issue with some diesel engines is hard cold weather starting. A trick that usually works is to crank the engine over for about 10 or 15 seconds, and if it dosen't fire up let it rest for 20-30 seconds and then try again. The air in the cylinders will have been heated by being compressed and that heat will warm the cylinders and pistons slightly which is often enough to get it going. Do NOT use either starting fluid unless it is an extreme emergency, it could blow a head gasket. Ronny
I'd modify that a little: DO NOT use ether or any starting fluid EVER for ANY reason, period. It rarely starts the engine and can cause everything from the comparatively mild blown head gasket to cracked blocks, fires and general mayhem [g].
If the fuel is badly gelled, no amount of ether will fix the situation. If water has frozen in the fuel filter, blocking fuel flow even with no gelling problem present, ether will also do nothing to help.
-dan
From the VW Manual - Winter Operations
From the VW 2010 Jetta TDI Manual: Winter operation
At temperatures below 20° F (_7° C), Diesel fuel NO.2 loses its fluidity due to wax separation, which may clog the fuel filter or tank filter and keep the engine from running. To help the filter from being clogged by wax, the fuel filter in your vehicle is automatically preheated. Preheating the fuel filter makes operation of your vehicle possible with Diesel fuel No.2 down to -10° F (-24° C).
If you expect temperatures below 5° F (_15° C) ask your fuel dealer whether their Diesel fuel NO.2 is sufficiently winterized for the prevailing and expected temperatures. If not winterized or insufficiently winterized Diesel fuel has already thickened to the extent that the engine will not start, warm the vehicle up by leaving it in a heated garage.
It is normal that the engine noise level (dieseling) is louder during the warm-up period in the winter. It is also normal when whitish-blue smoke comes out of the tailpipe after starting and during warm-up. The amount of smoke depends on the outside temperature.
VW stops short of telling users to use fuel treatment themselves but how can you ever be sure? I talked to a landscaper who plows snow with Diesel equipment. He recommended "Power Services" additives. In fact, they have one called "Diesel 911" for tanks that have gelled.
You can read their FAQ at "powerservice.com".
Chitty had it correct - the fuel filter is heated. Here's the text from my 2010 Jetta TDI manual:
From the VW 2010 Jetta TDI Manual: Winter operation
At temperatures below 20° F (_7° C), Diesel fuel NO.2 loses its fluidity due to wax separation, which may clog the fuel filter or tank filter and keep the engine from running. To help the filter from being clogged by wax, the fuel filter in your vehicle is automatically preheated. Preheating the fuel filter makes operation of your vehicle possible with Diesel fuel No.2 down to -10° F (-24° C).
If you expect temperatures below 5° F (_15° C) ask your fuel dealer whether their Diesel fuel NO.2 is sufficiently winterized for the prevailing and expected temperatures. If not winterized or insufficiently winterized Diesel fuel has already thickened to the extent that the engine will not start, warm the vehicle up by leaving it in a heated garage.
It is normal that the engine noise level (dieseling) is louder during the warm-up period in the winter. It is also normal when whitish-blue smoke comes out of the tailpipe after starting and during warm-up. The amount of smoke depends on the outside temperature.
VW stops short of telling users to use fuel treatment themselves but how can you ever be sure? I talked to a landscaper who plows snow with Diesel equipment. He recommended "Power Services" additives. In fact, they have one called "Diesel 911" for tanks that have gelled.
You can read their FAQ at "powerservice.com".
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Just new here..
Hmm i think there's nothing to worry about that..
Diesel works good even though it's winter...
Hmm i think there's nothing to worry about that..
Diesel works good even though it's winter...
I'm from Alberta Canada eh, and it's cold as....a polar bears toe nails up here lol!! I had a hard time starting my mkv the first winter and i tried many different stations but still no dice. It gets to -35c here on a rough month up here so it's chilly for sure. I was having to sit and wait for long periods of time waiting for the glow plugs to heat and even then it was not always on the first time ..i was getting a lil nervous !! Soo i started using Power Service Diesel Kleen when it gets -5C and wow it's amazing ! My car started like amazing and it just sounded better starting up as well. Well this was all great and dandy until it hit -15c then i was having that same problem soo i got one of these oil pan heaters http://www.dieselproducts.com/cgi-bin/online/storepro.php
Mine was like 90 bucks with installation from my mechanic who was the guy to recommend me this. I got a timer on my my plug so it turns on like 40 mins before i go to work and i just unplug it when i get to my car. It is truly shocking how nice my car start now. I have no fear that my car won't start now even in the coldest of days lol bring it on mother nature!!
Mine was like 90 bucks with installation from my mechanic who was the guy to recommend me this. I got a timer on my my plug so it turns on like 40 mins before i go to work and i just unplug it when i get to my car. It is truly shocking how nice my car start now
. I have no fear that my car won't start now even in the coldest of days lol bring it on mother nature!!
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I would like to reopen this thread since it is related to my recent 20 question query.
based on some recent web searching, it looks like there is a path through the fuel filter, not only directly back to the fuel tank, but right through the filter.
the newer filters ( with smaller internal hole and no olympic ring) has a thermostatic controlled path which directs warm fuel returning from the higher pressure pumps and not used in the engine to the dirty side of the filter where it can preheat the fuel. the thermostat below the lid diverts fuel returned from the engine mounted pumps and plumbing either to the dirty side of the filter, or to the return feed of the lift pump inside the fuel tank.
the older style still has a path to mix fuel from the high pressure parts of the system into the dirty side of the filter, where it could warm the fuel in the filter can.
I have been trying to figure out if there is a real thermostat in the newer style, or if the fuel lift pump is modulated (not operated at some times) to encourage the warmer fuel to mix inside the can.
this is why I am looking for a way to monitor the lift pump with my VCDS.
any comments?
based on some recent web searching, it looks like there is a path through the fuel filter, not only directly back to the fuel tank, but right through the filter.
the newer filters ( with smaller internal hole and no olympic ring) has a thermostatic controlled path which directs warm fuel returning from the higher pressure pumps and not used in the engine to the dirty side of the filter where it can preheat the fuel. the thermostat below the lid diverts fuel returned from the engine mounted pumps and plumbing either to the dirty side of the filter, or to the return feed of the lift pump inside the fuel tank.
the older style still has a path to mix fuel from the high pressure parts of the system into the dirty side of the filter, where it could warm the fuel in the filter can.
I have been trying to figure out if there is a real thermostat in the newer style, or if the fuel lift pump is modulated (not operated at some times) to encourage the warmer fuel to mix inside the can.
this is why I am looking for a way to monitor the lift pump with my VCDS.
any comments?
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Which model do you have and do you have any pictures of it installed? One complaint I've heard from people who installed the Frost Heater is that it always seems to get in the way of components when maintenance comes up.I'm from Alberta Canada eh, and it's cold as....a polar bears toe nails up here lol!! I had a hard time starting my mkv the first winter and i tried many different stations but still no dice. It gets to -35c here on a rough month up here so it's chilly for sure. I was having to sit and wait for long periods of time waiting for the glow plugs to heat and even then it was not always on the first time ..i was getting a lil nervous !! Soo i started using Power Service Diesel Kleen when it gets -5C and wow it's amazing ! My car started like amazing and it just sounded better starting up as well. Well this was all great and dandy until it hit -15c then i was having that same problem soo i got one of these oil pan heaters http://www.dieselproducts.com/cgi-bin/online/storepro.php
Mine was like 90 bucks with installation from my mechanic who was the guy to recommend me this. I got a timer on my my plug so it turns on like 40 mins before i go to work and i just unplug it when i get to my car. It is truly shocking how nice my car start now
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