5000 or 10000? You always hear the "factory oil is made for breakin" or whatever. Is there any legitimacy to that or is it just a standard brew? The book implies 10000 with the free service plan. There is a premium service plan that has it changed every 5000 (for one of their SUV TDIs, not Golf TDI). This makes me think there'd be no harm in it and "factory oil" is nonsense. What do people think, 5000 or 10000?
When to change oil
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This has already been discussed here:
http://www.myturbodiesel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2049&highlight=oil+change
I just got mine changed at 10k miles and had no problems whatsoever...
http://www.myturbodiesel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2049&highlight=oil+change
I just got mine changed at 10k miles and had no problems whatsoever...
This has been discussed a lot on this and other forums. To sum up, the oil put in at factory is special, and changing it sooner than 10k is really detrimental. After that, changing it more often than 10k is useless, bordeline harmful.
Modern engines don't need an oil change every 5k miles, the dealers are just trying to make money. Changing the oil every 10k is perfectly fine. Some people tested their oil showing it could actually go much further than that.
I would stick to the recommendation of the factory, not the dealer.
Modern engines don't need an oil change every 5k miles, the dealers are just trying to make money. Changing the oil every 10k is perfectly fine. Some people tested their oil showing it could actually go much further than that.
I would stick to the recommendation of the factory, not the dealer.
The 5000 changes are actually part of the VW service plan for higher end TDIs, not the dealer. I would change it myself at 5000, not the dealer. Then just use the free 10,000 one. Just feels wrong to me to let it go 10,000 miles before changing it. I just went over 5000 miles with my last trip and need to made a decision shortly.
Why do you say that ?
Do you have any evidence so to speak that VW put in a special break in oil when it leaves the factory ?
I am intrigued that this story does the rounds on forums and would love to see if it is actually true and where it originates from.
Funny, today during my "90 day" checkup the dealer suggested I come back and have the oil changed at 5000 and each 5000 between the 10,000 changes. Fortunately for them I would be the one paying for these every 5,000 mile oil changes.
What nice people they are.
What nice people they are.
Well I went because of I wanted the trim piece for the driver side A pillar replaced. It doesn't fit properly near the roof, pushing some of the door seal out a bit. The passenger side A pillar trim fits nice and snug.
Other than suggesting I do 5k oil changes the dealer did not suggest anything else. I figure it this way, I haven't noticed anything wrong but it doesn't hurt letting the dealer make sure.
Had my 60 day check today
Had my 60 day check up this morning....mostly pressure and fluid levels, didn't try to sell me anything. I thought it was a good idea to let those who see these car every day see mine. I did want an oil change just in case (3,750 miles - I paid for it), and will get another one at 10K, and then will go with every 10K from here on out. Just wanted anything that may be in there out before too long. Nothing has been wrong with this car, a 2011 Golf TDI, 6-spd manual. I would like to thank everyone for sharing experiences and knowledge with new guys such as myself: thank you! R.
Everything I've seen including those that are nice enough to post results of their oil analyses indicate to me that an oil change at 10,000miles for the frequent driver (change more often if car sits for long periods or is driven very short distances) is more than adequate for oil quality and also filter quality (if OE is used). I saw an earlier post saying higher end TDIs take a 5,000miles oil change interval (OCI)...and there are many reasons for that ranging from higher oil temps to larger amounts of soot produced. Its a different animal.
The 2.0TDI CR and similar smaller engines are fine with 10,000 mile OCIs. That being said, I've decided to change mine every 7,500 miles. Its a personal choice, and I don't feel that my car will really care whether I do it at 7,500 or 10,000. I would caution those who want to change it more often than 7,500 miles though. Today's oils regardless of spec have the most detergent content of any oils in history. It has been proven that those detergents can actually harm your engine over time if they are aggressively used (ie. excessive oil change). Changing the oil twice as often as recommended puts you into a situation where those detergents (which are designed to get you to that 10,000 mile point and beyond) are replenished too often. This can lead to premature wear to seals and other problems. Also, changing the oil this frequently (keep in mind that the 2.0 CR TDI uses a 507 00 spec which is definitely SYNTHETIC, which lasts twice as long as conventional anyway) is quite honestly a waste of money.
Our oil is by no means cheap. I know it takes some getting used to as far as going that long without an oil change, but there are proven reasons for it. I was a skeptic with all the rest of you, but I did my research. You have to change with the times as far as technology goes. I feel that 7,500 to 10,000 miles is a very acceptable range within to change the oil in this car. Sometimes we get a little carried away...in this case, go with whats in the book. No matter what we think of car manufacturers, they do more research and testing than you could ever do. But that's just my 2 cents on the matter.
The 2.0TDI CR and similar smaller engines are fine with 10,000 mile OCIs. That being said, I've decided to change mine every 7,500 miles. Its a personal choice, and I don't feel that my car will really care whether I do it at 7,500 or 10,000. I would caution those who want to change it more often than 7,500 miles though. Today's oils regardless of spec have the most detergent content of any oils in history. It has been proven that those detergents can actually harm your engine over time if they are aggressively used (ie. excessive oil change). Changing the oil twice as often as recommended puts you into a situation where those detergents (which are designed to get you to that 10,000 mile point and beyond) are replenished too often. This can lead to premature wear to seals and other problems. Also, changing the oil this frequently (keep in mind that the 2.0 CR TDI uses a 507 00 spec which is definitely SYNTHETIC, which lasts twice as long as conventional anyway) is quite honestly a waste of money.
Our oil is by no means cheap. I know it takes some getting used to as far as going that long without an oil change, but there are proven reasons for it. I was a skeptic with all the rest of you, but I did my research. You have to change with the times as far as technology goes. I feel that 7,500 to 10,000 miles is a very acceptable range within to change the oil in this car. Sometimes we get a little carried away...in this case, go with whats in the book. No matter what we think of car manufacturers, they do more research and testing than you could ever do. But that's just my 2 cents on the matter.
Three paragraphs wasn't enough? Looked OK to me, but I tend to run on myself, so...
I agree with golfTDI1 completely. I ran Mobil 1 0w40 in my R32 for 7 years on a 10k-mile interval and each time I drained it, it looked really good (I know, "looks" is not testing...but you know what I mean), and the car was whisper-quiet and ran like new the whole time.
The new TDI may be harder on oil, but I'm sticking with the 10k interval and I'll never give it a second thought.
I agree with golfTDI1 completely. I ran Mobil 1 0w40 in my R32 for 7 years on a 10k-mile interval and each time I drained it, it looked really good (I know, "looks" is not testing...but you know what I mean), and the car was whisper-quiet and ran like new the whole time.
The new TDI may be harder on oil, but I'm sticking with the 10k interval and I'll never give it a second thought.
In what way would frequent oil changing be harmfull?mhofman said:
Diesel engines run at much higher compression ratios than gasoline with the result that the engine oil takes a harder pounding. That, coupled with driving style and load make all the difference to how fast an oil will break down or "shear" (Reduce viscosity).
If you run mostly at constant speed for long periods on a high-way where the oil reaches maximum operating temp a lot of the harmful combustion by-products are cooked off but if you do a lot of short distance driving the oil never reaches optimum temp and all those by products remain suspended in the oil and never go anywhere except to the engine components. Just because the coolant temp gauge reads high after a few minutes of driving doesn't mean the oil has reached it's optimum operating temp. Most truck drivers who are serious about looking after their own rigs will tell you that 30 miles on the highway at constant speed gets the oil to the temp where its providing the best protection. That's why if you only drive short distances often like on a commute twice a day you should really take the car for a good long drive at least once a week to allow the oil to reach its optimum temp range and get rid of all those nasty things that love to eat metal.
You should also be aware that part of the reason for increased change intervals is to lessen the environmental impact dealing with used oil. Its not all about making life easier for you! Just because a synthetic oil keeps is viscosity for longer doesn't mean its always safe to keep it in a diesel engine longer. Every oil suspends carbon and metal particles. Synthetics might do a better job at lubricating and cleaning but whats suspended in it remains in it and keeps working its way around your engine wearing it mile after mile after mile.
Actually a case could be made for changing more often precisely because it does clean better. Would you do a second load of laundry after the first in the same water or take a bath after someone else?
I suppose it all comes down to how long you want to keep your TDI. If you plan on changing at every warranty expiration then keep to the recommended interval and you will never have to worry. If you plan on keeping it till it dies or repairs outweigh the value of the car then doubling your service intervals will give a long term benefit. Not only in terms of component wear but it may actually affect how often that DPF or other exhaust filters will need to be changed.
As for me? I usually keep my cars till they die. Granted I do a lot of my own repairs as well as servicing, so an oil change is no big deal. My TDI will be driven mostly by my wife so its going to come in for a lot of stop and go city driving and grocery lugging. For that reason alone I will be changing the oil at least every 5000 and I know my engine will benefit from this. Just ask my old 80,s 6.9 IDI. She hardly burns a drop of oil and you don't see a constant stream of blue mist coming from her tailpipe.
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Some say that the long life additives don't have time to work fully. I haven't tested it myself but others have and believe that 10k is the right change interval for most drivers.
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Soot in suspension does no harm. More frequent oil changes than necessary causes more wear (metal in suspension) not less. All this is well documented via UOA. Also, break-in oil should be left in for the full 10k miles (one will likely see elevated levels during break-in). If you're concerned about the OCI, spend $20 for a UOA at 15k miles instead of $60 for 4 quarts of oil + filter and see for yourself and you'll likely be ahead $20 every 10k miles. The UOA will indicate whether you might consider increasing or decreasing your OCI.
The 10k OCI is very conservative for most drivers. Most can (and probably should) extend the OCI.
Here's some data relative to some PD engines:
Soot in suspension does no harm. More frequent oil changes than necessary causes more wear (metal in suspension) not less. All this is well documented via UOA. Also, break-in oil should be left in for the full 10k miles (one will likely see elevated levels during break-in). If you're concerned about the OCI, spend $20 for a UOA at 15k miles instead of $60 for 4 quarts of oil + filter and see for yourself and you'll likely be ahead $20 every 10k miles. The UOA will indicate whether you might consider increasing or decreasing your OCI.
The 10k OCI is very conservative for most drivers. Most can (and probably should) extend the OCI.
http://www.aei-tech.com/products/lube_oil_soot.html
Can you give me a source for this information?
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Go to TDIclub.com and start reading the oil analysis forum and other forums. I think the data came from drivbiwire at TDIclub from cars that his shop services. Read this. There is plenty of discussion on why changing oil more frequent than necessary causes more wear not less. I again empasize "than necessary". You need UOA to determine when "necessary" occurs. You don't have to believe others UOA reports and of course your operating conditions and driving style may affect your OCI.
I was responding to your analogy of dirting laundry in that you were suggesting because the laundry water looks dirty you shouldn't do another load of clothes. Because the oil looks dirty (having soot in your oil) does no harm. Obviously, excess soot can be a problem. If soot is too high and causes wear, then your UOA will show excess wear materials (and elevated soot levels if the UOA checks this) and you should decrease the OCI. But to arbitrarily decrease the OCI may cause more harm than good. Bottom line: IHMO, why spend money changing oil more frequently "than necessary" and UOA will give you a good idea of when "necessary" is.
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Another thing to consider, every time you change your oil and start the engine, you are starting the engine with zero oil pressure. It takes some time for the oil pump to prime the lubrication system. This is really hard on an engine, and why double the number of these "dry starts" when you don't have to
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