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#### Urgent Help needed, Audi A3 2.0 TDI Fault ####

92716 Views 24 Replies 10 Participants Last post by  chittychittybangbang, 
G
2
#### Urgent Help needed, Audi A3 2.0 TDI Fault ####

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Any Experts out there that can help with this fault. recently my Audi A3 2.0 TDI developed an intermittent starting fault. Have had the car looked at by 3 garages , 5 Diags and 3 Auto Elec, glow plugs replaced, egr unit replaced, key changed, battery replaced but car still has fault and no one can pin point the problem. Had all the relays checked. Snap-on diags produce same report as vac-com diags.

See attached pictures for more help, first pic shows car not starting and the onboard computer not showing the mpg indicator.

Second pic shows everything ready to go and car will start fine. the problem is i have to put the key in and turn on ready to start and off again about 5 times until the car passes all startup checks before it will start.

When the car won't start as in pic one attached above, after about 5 mins of the ignition left on in this state the engine fans start up.

When the car 'will start' as in pic two, (notice the mpg is displayed and the engine light is on) and key left in for 5 mins the fans don't start.

Also notice in picture one that the (mpg display is zero) does anyone know why this would be the case, how does this component get it's reading and from where, maybe this could be part of the problem. Someone had suggested the fuel pump as we hear a whistling noice just after the engine light shows indicating that the car is ready to start. (see engine light in pic 2)

Bottle of Champs for the person that fixes this fault :)
VAC-COM diags results below :---

00-Steering Angle Sensor -- Status: OK 0000
01-Engine -- Status: Sporadic communication error 1000
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: Malfunction 0010
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: Malfunction 0010
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: Malfunction 0010
25-Immobilizer -- Status: OK 0000
42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: OK 0000
44-Steering Assist -- Status: Malfunction 0010
46-Central Conv. -- Status: OK 0000
47-Sound System -- Status: OK 0000
52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
56-Radio -- Status: Malfunction 0010
7D-Aux. Heat -- Status: OK 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 03G-906-016-BKD.lbl
Part No SW: 03G 906 016 G HW: 028 101 136 4
Component: R4 2,0L EDC 0000SG 5334
Revision: 12345678 Serial number: AUX7Z0C8FNM01U
Coding: 0000072
Shop #: WSC 06435 000 00000

No fault code found.
Readiness: 0 0 0 1 1

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 1K0-907-379-MK60-F.lbl
Part No: 1K0 907 379 D
Component: ESP FRONT MK60 0102
Coding: 0055942
Shop #: WSC 06435 000 00000

1 Fault Found:
01314 - Engine Control Module
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 8P0-820-043.lbl
Part No SW: 8P0 820 043 HW: 8P0 820 043
Component: KlimavollautomatH11 0130
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000

1 Fault Found:
01592 - Air Quality Sensor (G238)
010 - Open or Short to Plus
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01101010
Fault Priority: 3
Fault Frequency: 225
Reset counter: 142
Mileage: 42157 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2005.12.01
Time: 06:51:42

Freeze Frame:
Temperature: 7.5°C


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. Labels: 8P0-907-279-23-H.lbl
Part No SW: 8P0 907 279 A HW: 8P0 907 279 A*
Component: Bordnetz-SG 1.0 H29 0501
Revision: 00029000 Serial number: 00000000170986
Coding: 01884F00A2141000000000000000000000
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000

Part No: 8P2 955 119 C
Component: Wischer WWS Audi350 0180
Coding: 16711696
Shop #: WSC 00000

2 Faults Found:
01314 - Engine Control Module
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
00526 - Brake Light Switch-F
008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 8P0-959-655-84.lbl
Part No SW: 8P0 959 655 F HW: 8P0 959 655 F
Component: Airbag 8.4ED H01 0130
Coding: 0011602
Shop #: WSC 06435 000 00000

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel Labels: 1K0-953-549-MY8.lbl
Part No SW: 1K0 953 549 A HW: 1K0 953 549 A
Component: Lenksäulenmodul 009 0030
Coding: 0000012
Shop #: WSC 06435 000 00000

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 8P0-920-xxx-17-MY7.lbl
Part No SW: 8P0 920 980 H HW: 8P0 920 980 H
Component: KOMBIINSTR. VDO H25 0110
Revision: D07 Serial number: 2248CD07000911
Coding: 0004403
Shop #: WSC 00409 210 62006

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway Labels: 1K0-907-530.lbl
Part No SW: 1K0 907 530 B HW: 1K0 907 951
Component: Gateway H08 0090
Revision: 08 Serial number: 24001038130518
Coding: 3D0F0B42070101
Shop #: WSC 06435 000 00000

1 Fault Found:
01314 - Engine Control Module
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100100
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 43
Reset counter: 182
Mileage: 160734 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2010.03.25
Time: 15:56:22


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer Labels: 1K0-920-xxx-25.lbl
Part No SW: 8P0 920 980 H HW: 8P0 920 980 H
Component: KOMBIINSTR. VDO H25 0110
Revision: D07 Serial number: AUX7Z0C8FNM01U
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 42: Door Elect, Driver Labels: 8P0-959-801-MIN1.lbl
Part No: 8P0 959 801 A
Component: Tuersteuerger. H10 0010
Coding: 0000048
Shop #: WSC 06435 000 00000

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 44: Steering Assist Labels: 1Kx-909-14x.lbl
Part No: 1K1 909 143 L
Component: EPS_ZFLS Kl.7 0402
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000

1 Fault Found:
01314 - Engine Control Module
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Mileage: 0 km
Temperature: -70.0°C
Voltage: 0.00 V
Voltage: 0.00 V


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. Labels: 8P0-959-433.lbl
Part No: 8P0 959 433
Component: KSG H02 0040
Coding: 008800186D288505485AC63000
Shop #: WSC 06435 000 00000

Part No: 1K0 951 605 A
Component: LIN BACKUP HORN H01 1201

Part No: 1K0 907 719
Component: Neigungssensor 002 0002

Part No: 8P0 951 177
Component: Innenraumueberw.H03 0010

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 47: Sound System Labels: 8Px-035-382.lbl
Part No SW: 8P3 035 382 HW: 8P3 035 382
Component: AB2 SUBWOOFERBOXH23 0100
Revision: 00001 Serial number: 10000001061595
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 52: Door Elect, Pass. Labels: 8P0-959-802-MIN1.lbl
Part No: 8P0 959 802 A
Component: Tuersteuerger. H10 0010
Coding: 0000048
Shop #: WSC 06435 000 00000

1 Fault Found:
00933 - Electric Window Motor; Passenger Side (V148)
005 - No or Incorrect Basic Setting / Adaptation - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio Labels: 8P0-035-1xx-56.lbl
Part No SW: 8P0 035 186 HW: 8P0 035 186
Component: concert II EU H53 0060
Revision: 07S Serial number: AUZ2Z3C1481983
Coding: 0001001
Shop #: WSC 06435 000 00000

2 Faults Found:
01317 - Control Module in Instrument Cluster (J285)
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100100
Fault Priority: 5
Fault Frequency: 6
Reset counter: 143

Freeze Frame:
Bin. Bits: 10

01299 - Diagnostic Interface for Data Bus (J533)
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100100
Fault Priority: 5
Fault Frequency: 3
Reset counter: 143


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 7D: Aux. Heat Labels: 1K0-963-235.lbl
Part No SW: 1K0 963 235 C HW: 1K0 963 235 C
Component: PTC-Element 0404
Revision: 00600000 Serial number:
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000

No fault code found.

End ---------------------------------------------------------------------

All codes have been cleared about 50 times by different people but the same codes always return.


see linked post for other comments
http://forums.audiworld.com/showthread.php?p=23981115&posted=1#post23981115

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chittychittybangbang
2
Does the engine not even crank over when you turn the key or does it turn over but won't catch and run?

FYI, as a comment to another post, it's almost definitely not an immobilizer fault because I've triggered the immobilizer to test it. It will still let the engine start completely fine, it will just shut off the engine after about a second. So if you crank it and it won't start, it's not the immobilizer.

The engine management computer (ECM or ECU) is under the windshield wipers.

This sounds like it could be a water damaged car due to the random electronics problem. The multiple codes suggest a defective ECU, connection, ground, wiring harness, or relay. There are also relays under the hood next to the battery, under a cover. The only ones not related to the ECU are the brake light switch (under the pedal). The power window error code is probably related to power getting reset. The same thing for the steering adaptation. It may help to identify what it's not - it's not:

The glow plugs because they're only required to start in cold weather.
The immobilizer for the reasons above.

Probably not a second defective battery.
Probably not misfueling with gas or bad diesel if it runs fine otherwise.
Probably not a bad alternator or voltage regulator but have the garage check for these.



If you listen to the EGR valve when you cycle the key it's probably the high pitched noise you hear. It goes through a self calibration. Here's a pic of the EGR valve. Verify this is the noise before you start chasing it.


Also take off this relay panel cover and check all the relays (your relays may look a little different, if you could take a picture of them it would help.) The mechanics may have missed these.
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V
Yeah, not the immobilizer but I could see a bad instrument cluster. Maybe since it's bad it's not causing the usual immobilizer problem? You don't see the immobilizer light right?
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D
How many miles on the car and can you think of anything that happened just prior to the problem showing up -- like drove through a particularly deep puddle or gave someone a jump start -- anything?

This screams really bad intermittent ground to me, but not knowing where all the pieces are on an A3 (sold mine) I can't be more specific, other than to suggest checking for things like a broken motor mount that allowed the engine to twist during acceleration and tear an important ground strap (such as the one commonly used between the transmission and body). That type of strap can break but leave a few strands intermittently touching and cause lots of weird problems, just for example.

-dan
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D
Has the dealer been involved yet? If so, what are their thoughts? Any reason this is not a warranty issue? If three different garages have tried to fix the car, hopefully they are all ultra-familar with tdi's or they could add to the problem.
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G
2
Update to problem and your questions

Thanks for the update, i've already had the battery replaced as this was one of the first signs of the problems starting.

Any thoughts on why the fans would start when after about five mins of leaving the key in the ignition and only when the car won't start. The other chap that has posted about the instrument panel. I should add that the ECON light did also come on for a short while about 3 months ago and then went off.

At the service , the Audi dealer said there was a fan fault and that the fans would need replacing.

Any thoughts on the Diags results, is the ECU unit the panel under the dashboard next to the internal fues set under the steering wheel? if not what is the panel/circuit board?

Any idea how much they are and can they just be replaced without any programming?

this is going to be easier to replace than the clocks, which will need to be re-programmed for the alarm but need to consider eliminating the faults.

Some more info from past services and recent costs and changes from the garages.

Audi service by Audi - Radiator fans require replacement due to EML light on. ---any thoughts on this? what's the EML light, it's not on the instruments or dash board anywhere.?

Last month Car when to a garage to try and resolve this fault. - Diag run and garage replaced Glow Plugs (as mentioned in the first post), replaced the Throttle moto/Body (£261) - Removed and clean EGR Value, - added fuel treatment to remove carbon build up - Plus some labour ext (bill £552) - result car still not working.

i've not taken it back to the Audi dealers as yet as i'm concerned about the continued costs and hit and miss replacing parts. Hoping that someone can pin point the problem and then i'll take it in.

The Auto Electrian did test the relays that are under the steering wheel this is where i thought the ECM unit was.........? i.e. inside the car and not under the bonnet...?

2007 - EGR Value replaced by Audi -

Also worth noting the back windscreen wiper motor is defective and no longer works. This was intermittent but had stopped fully about 3 months ago. looking back it may have been around the same time the fault started :(

Chitty - see pics below as requested. Also, in answer to your question, the car will turn over but does not start. In the no starting state i just take the key out and then re-insert and try again until the (engine light) come on. The only consistent thing in all this is that i know when it won't start and when it will.

With regards to the earthing/grounding checks how can i check this myself?



Thanks for taking time to read and respond.

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chittychittybangbang
Those big red cables are for the fusebox, alternator, and other major components. There are other grounds around the battery, on the battery, and I'm sure there's probably a few more. Make sure the big red cables are sold, not melted, not frayed, etc. It's possible the car had some repair work on the car came from the factory with some poorly routed wires which have since rubbed through and are shorting out. Look around the entire engine bay (remove the airbox and battery too) and inspect the wiring harness for rubbing areas or cracks.

The diagnostic port where they plug in the cable and the relay panel are under the dashboard. The actual ECU box should be under the windshield area.

Although they should have fixed it with the new coolant tank, do you have coolant migration? This is a wild guess. http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q_how_to/multi/coolant_migration.htm
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L
Does the car have a history of water damage? The car has 100k+ miles on it, what model year is it?
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G
Thanks again chaps, will check the cables over the weekend and have a good look around the car.

Chitty - still on the subject of the ECU - do you have a picture of it, where the diags connector is under the steering wheel, if you remove the housing and expose the other fuse box there are relays and other connectors going to a circuit board. Sorry i've never seen the ECU so don't know where it is or what it looks like. If it's in the place you describe..... then i assume you can only access it from under the bonnet /(hood - for our american friends reading :) ) if so then what do you call the unit that is located under the steering wheel next to the 2nd fuse box.

Silver - I'm not aware of any history of water damage i bought the car from Audi 2nd hand and have had it for 3 years now. The car is a 53 plate made 2004. Full Audi Service history, it has had a new cylinder head about 2 years ago around 75000k mile because the engine was losing water and a bit of oil. Since then it's been running fine. This fault has only developed over the past 3 months or so.

I hear the back windscreen motor has failed due to possible water leaking in from the blade and sprinkle jets on the back windscreen.
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chittychittybangbang
2
I don't have a pic of the ECU - it should be under the windshield trim. The ECU should be about 5 in. x 5 in. flat metal box with plastic plugs. Here's a pic from a Jetta of what's under the dashboard - the obd2 port is the purple plug. That's what the VCDS diagnostic cable plus into. The pics are from a writeup so ignore the markings.


I'm not sure if the A3 is the same but for your year it should be - the Jetta has a central electronics module with relays. That's what the removed plugs were plugged into. If water leaked onto these relays it could cause problems. I assume this is what the tech checked. If I were you I'd start removing stuff to check all the wiring harness. Going back to earlier guesses it sounds like an intermittent electrical problem caused by something like bad wiring or a bad component. Maybe even the ECU is bad - it's rare but it happens.


How is the engine compression? I assume that mpg is average? There's no bubbles or oil coming into the coolant reservoir from a leaking headgasket?
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M
Hi

We have exactly the same issue on our 05 A3 2.0 TDI Sportback.

Originally we got a check engine light, the garage read the error codes:

19558 - Motor for Intake Manifold Flap (V157): No Signal
19557 - Motor for Intake Manifold Flap (V157): Open or Short to Ground
17075 - Fan 1 Control Circuit: Short to GND

They wanted to replace both the IMF and the fans, but after reading this:

http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/showth...take-Manifold-Flap-EGR-Valve...How-do-i-solve

we decided to try the IMF ourselves (it's a very easy job). This seems to have cured the problem, the car will start and runs fine, with the check engine light going out once the car is running, but only after the symptoms described by Greg2010 (the check engine light not coming on and the range reading 0 miles - car does not start, check engine light on range correct - car starts).

When the IMF was faulty it was blowing a fuse that is also connected to the fans, this is now fine.

If anyone can shed any light on this we would be really grateful too! This feels like a problem that could run and run at a garage and with a new baby we can't afford to let it!
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S
Do you have leaves clogged under there causing water to back up into the ECU? There was a recall for this. The vag com site says the engine codes are:
Possible Causes
CAN-Databus Wiring/Connectors from/to Engine Control Module faulty
Fault(s) stored in Engine Control Module
Possible Solutions
Check CAN-Databus Wiring/Connectors from/to Engine Control Module
Check Measuring Value Blocks (MVB)
Usually Measuring Value Blocks (MVB) 125+ show the current Communication Status

The instrument codes are:
Possible Causes
CAN-Databus Wiring/Connectors from/to Instrument Cluster (J285) faulty
Fault(s) stored in Instrument Cluster (J285)
Possible Solutions
Check CAN-Databus Wiring/Connectors from/to Instrument Cluster (J285)
Check Measuring Value Blocks (MVB)
Usually Measuring Value Blocks (MVB) 125+ show the current Communication Status

Is it possible that you have a bad ignition switch?

I agree, this almost sounds like bad grounds. Maybe the battery terminals are loose or the engine ground is broken?
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G
Chitty - Engine compression is fine as far as i'm awaree, the car drives fine has a little cold start that i noticed recently. MPG is fine other than the cost of fuel these days that's the only real change i've seen :(

You're right about the central electronics unit, that's what i meant in my previous post. I also found the ECU, under the windscreen wipers as you stated.
Could there be a problem with the central electronics. i've pulled all the connectors off to check and all seem fine.

any thoughts on the FAN's issues, when the car won't start and i leave the key in the ignition after about 5 mins the FANs start up. Bit strange, as when the car does start the FANs don't start up if i leave the key in and don't start the engine?

Also any ideas on the OBD (on board display) i.e the mpg, what's driving this reading?
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G
Ok All, i'm having the ignition wireing checked on Wednesday , took the car to another garage, they had a diags tool but couldn't read the anything from the car, any ideas on why the couldn't read the ECU, or CANBus. Suggested i start with the iginition coil incase the bad contacts are coming from that. Will update you again if this fixes the fault.

MEC, any update on your fault, you said you are getting the same issues now with your car. has any other components failed, such as the rear wipers?
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M
Hi

Still no joy with ours. We've been putting up with 5 minutes starts!

We currently insert the key, turn the ignition on, wait. All the normal lights come on except the check engine light (and the range reading 0 miles), we wait some more, eventually the check engine light comes on and the car will start.

Once running all lights go out as they should.

I am going to try and look for signs of water on the ECU - it's right under the bonnet by the passenger wiper, right?

Does anyone know the location of all the ground straps to check?

greg2010 - I haven't noticed any other faults, except those I mentioned first with the codes (IMF and fans) I need to check the fans at some point, not quite sure how yet! I'll try and check and let you know.

Thanks!
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G
update -

Thanks Mec, just wanted to clarify that we have the same fault. Can you also try this for me.

Put the key in, and if the engine light does not come on i.e. car won't start. leave the key in for about 5 mins or so and see if the fans start up.

I've now had the ignition switch replaced and still have the same fault. I don't think you'll have continued water damage (leaking) into the ecu as it's been boiling here for the last few days and i've not used the wipers. If it had water damage then i'd suspect it to fail.....all being equal and all that, water and electric not a good combination.

Anyway, i have the car booked into Audi for the end of the month as i'm tired of replacing parts and paying garages who think they know what the problem is and it's costing me a fortune.

I'l keep you posted on the result from Audi at the end of the month. :(
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M
I'll try and check the fan on Saturday.

Everything else seems fine, the only small thing is the car says the left reverse light is broken, when it isn't. The back wiper is fine.

My gut feeling is that I still have a fault on the fan (as the original error code) but I'll give it a go and let you know. I am also not convinced the IMF problem is fixed, I can still hear the noise coming from the new unit.

Did a 200 mile round trip this weekend with no problems other than the wait to start, the temperature never went over 90 but I also didn't notice the smaller fan turning (the larger one is for the aircon as I understand it). With the temp being normal you'd have to assume the fan is working right?

Anyway, I have my fingers crossed for you at Audi, my experience with our two local dealers has been bad with this car and our old TT (why do I buy Audi again! :)).

It would be great if you let me know what happens with yours!
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G
Fixed At Last.....but it's not cheap

Hi Mec, and the rest that have tried to help.

Finally got the car fixed. Audi had checked all the wiring to the ECU and then confirmed that it was the ECU that is at fault.

I think someone had mentioned about the water leaking into the ECU from under the windscreen wipers. Well they are correct, the ECU had signs of water damage and corrosion

Audi had the car for 4 days. Total cost to fix this problem...£1600 (include all the other garages, auto Elec, and parts replaced to date). Final bill from Audi £700 + still waiting for another windscreen wiper casing (the cover that protects the ECU from water leaking in as having removed this it now appears to be damaged and will allow water to leak back in).

Mec, my suggestion would be to check the seal at the bottom of the your windscreen outside. Sitting in your car this would be just a few inches in from the bottom left hand side of the windowscreen and then towards the middle. The ECU is positioned just under this location. If you can feed some paper under neath the seal then chances are water has:nana2: been leaking in.

Looking back on the history of my problem you are likely to have to replace the ECU as the problem may get worse.

Last week it was taking up to 1hr to start the car.

I still have a fan fault coming from the car, any suggestions on how to fix this as Audi want to replace the fans at a cost of £380. Can the fans be fixed without the need to replace them?
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M
Thanks for letting me know, that is not cool at all.

Glad you finally got yours sorted.
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M
Incase anyone ends up here with the same symptoms, I wanted to share what (after quite some time!) solved our issue.

Our car was finally fixed by replacing a £15 relay! The relay in questions is the only one in our car marked ‘458’ it's grey and on the left side of the fuse box in our car.

Definitely worth trying before all the other ‘fixes’ we were quoted for by various garages.
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