The vortex has a phaeton subforum. From what I hear, they were too expensive, and had poor quality and service. They were very similar to an Audi A8 but instead of aluminum parts, got steel parts. The dealers never had parts in stock and didn't treat $80,000 car buyers well. They were heavily discounted to get them off lots and don't hold value well. I would rather just get an Audi A8, they don't hold value as well as an A4. I think it's just that if both cars depreciate by the same percent, the more expensive car has lost more dollars.