VW TDI forum, Audi, Porsche, and Chevy Cruze Diesel forum banner

1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
23,902 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
.......possibly important news but so far VW is blaming misfueling.

http://detnews.com/article/20110211/AUTO01/102110414/NHTSA-intensifies-probe-into-100-000-VW-diesel-vehicles

David Shepardson / Detroit News Washington Bureau Federal safety regulators stepped up an investigation into nearly 100,000 Volkswagen and Audi diesel vehicles over fuel pump failures.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said today it had upgraded its investigation into 97,272 diesel 2009-10 Volkswagen Jetta, 2010 Volkswagen Golf and Audi A3 vehicles. NHTSA said it's received 160 complaints; approximately half of the reports said the failure resulted in an engine stall incident, with many of these alleging stall incidents at highway speeds in traffic with no restart. There has been one minor crash alleged to have resulted from a high-pressure fuel pump failure.

NHTSA opened a preliminary investigation in February.
VW told NHTSA it had "found no defect related to motor vehicle safety with relation to the TDI Clean Diesel fuel system at issue in this investigation" and attributed problems with fuel pump failures to operation with gasoline contaminated diesel fuel. Volkswagen said "even a small amount of gasoline in the diesel fuel may disrupt the necessary lubrication required and may cause" the fuel pump to fail. VW issued a technical service bulletin in May 2010, telling dealers to inspect the diesel fuel for vehicles requiring fuel system service that have symptoms associated with fuel pump failure.
The bulletin said "fuel system damage" by using the wrong fuel will not be covered under warranty.

Volkswagen told NHTSA about 120 fueling incidents — including 20 reports involving incorrect fueling by dealer sales or service personnel and generally report symptoms such as rough running, stalling and/or no start within a few miles of refueling the vehicle with gasoline. Separately, NHTSA opened an investigation into whether other automakers used air bags that have been recalled by General Motors Co. In December, GM said it was recalling 95,927 2005-07 Cadillac CTS vehicles because some of the vehicles' sensing systems may not work and could fail to detect a front passenger's presence. That would disable the front air bag and could reduce protection in the event of a crash. GM is also providing additional warranty coverage for the air bag issue to another 62,867 2005-07 Cadillac CTS models not covered by the recall.

NHTSA said GM's supplier that made the faulty part supplied several passenger sensing system mats to other vehicle manufacturers for use in their vehicles. NHTSA said it is notifying "any other companies that might have purchased this equipment, notify them of this defect in any vehicles they manufactured, and to ensure thorough safety recalls are conducted where appropriate."
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
23,902 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
More on this from bloomberg: Volkswagens Under U.S. Review for Fuel-Pump Flaws http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-02-11/volkswagens-under-u-s-review-for-fuel-pump-flaws.html

Volkswagen AG vehicles are under review by the U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration after reports of engines stalls, some at highway speed, that may be related to fuel-pump failures.

The auto-safety regulator received reports of one accident and 160 complaints from owners and the company about engine loss of power and stalling, NHTSA said in a posting on its website today. The power loss and stalling was related to high-pressure pumps failing and contaminating the fuel system with debris, the agency said.

About half of the reports involved stalling with “many of these alleging stall incidents at highway speeds in traffic with no restart,” the agency said.

NHTSA is reviewing model years 2009 and 2010 of the Volkswagen Jetta and Golf and the Audi A3 that have TDI clean- diesel engines, totaling about 97,272 vehicles.

The regulator, which received 52 of the complaints directly and the rest through the Wolfsburg, Germany-based automaker, upgraded its investigation to an engineering analysis, a step that can lead to a recall.

“We take these matters very seriously and are cooperating fully with NHTSA during its investigation,” Sheriece Matias, a U.S.-based spokeswoman for Volkswagen, said in an e-mail. “We will continue to work closely with the agency as the analysis continues.”
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
23,902 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Summary of NTSB latest updates: http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/docservlet/Artemis/Public/Pursuits/2010/PE/INCLA-PE10034-6542.PDF

The important line in bold.

The Office of Defects Investigation (ODI) and Volkswagen (VW) have received a total of 160 complaints and field reports alleging incidents of engine stall and/or loss of power that appear to be related to high pressure fuel pump (HPFP) failures in certain model year (MY) 2009 through 2010 Volkswagen Jetta and MY 2010 Volkswagen Golf and Audi A3 vehicles equipped with TDI clean diesel engines. Approximately half of the reports indicate that the failure
resulted in an engine stall incident, with many of these alleging stall incidents at highway speeds in traffic with no restart. There has been one minor crash alleged to have resulted from HPFP failure in the subject vehicles. In response to ODI's information request for PE10-034, VW indicated that it had "found no defect related to motor vehicle safety with relation to the TDI Clean Diesel fuel system at issue in this investigation" and attributed problems with HPFP failure to operation with gasoline contaminated diesel fuel. Volkswagen stated that "even a small amount of gasoline in the diesel fuel may disrupt the necessary lubrication required and may cause the HPFP to fail." In response to concerns that fuel contamination was the major cause of HPFP and related fuel system failures, VW issued a Technical Service Bulletin in May 2010 (VW TB V011011 2023624 and Audi TB A011008 2023360-1), with
instructions to inspect the diesel fuel for vehicles requiring fuel system service that have symptoms associated with HPFP failure. The bulletin states that "fuel system damage incurred by use of fuel not complying to ASTM-D-975 Grade 2 S15 (B5 or less biodiesel content) standards will not be covered under warranty."

Volkswagen also provided information about 121 mis-fueling incidents reportedly acknowledged by consumers or dealers and test results for about 50 diesel fuel samples taken from complaint vehicles in late-August through early-October 2010. The mis-fueling incidents include about 20 reports involving incorrect fueling by dealer sales or service personnel and generally report symptoms such as rough running, stalling and/or no start within a few miles of refueling the vehicle with gasoline. Volkswagen indicated that the testing of fuel samples from complaint vehicles found that nearly 90 percent contained high amounts of gasoline.

Volkswagen implemented design changes for the HPFP in May 2008, September 2009 and November 2010 to improve the robustness of the pump when used with poor quality fuel. ODI analysis of HPFP failures identified from all sources shows failure rates of 0.53% for MY 2009 vehicles and 0.11% for MY 2010 vehicles. This investigation has been upgraded to an Engineering Analysis (EA11-003) to continue to investigate the issues
with mis-fueling and HPFP design identified during the Preliminary Evaluation
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
23,902 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Newer doesn't necessarily imply better :) They redesign parts all the time to make them cheaper to build. However, the statement by the NTSB does imply that it's more robust. However, if your car is already fine I would guess that it's already doing well. For all they know it's related to a bad batch.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
135 Posts
FINALLY! VW is started to pull their heads out of their rearends and being forced to listed to us customers complaining about sudden loss of power! ...but what a lame excuse by VW claiming wrong fuel! We all know there have been people that do this by accident, but there are not this many.

Can't wait to see what happens, my car seems to be getting worse...up past 10 total loss of power episodes now, with 3 since New Years.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,665 Posts
Stalling Complaints Prompt Investigation of 97,000 TDI Volkswagens and Audis

I've just read a thread on another forum that talks about stalling on newer TDI's.
Finally, NHTSA (National Highway Traffic Safety Admin USA) has commenced an investigation on VW for the Jetta and Golf TDI's (also the Audi A3) for model years 09 and 10

Engine stalling and loss of power!

Freakin' idiots at VW...now they will have to address our complaints.
Stalling Complaints Prompt Investigation of 97,000 TDI Volkswagens and Audis

But VW won't admit to anything positive.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
109 Posts
There is quite a thread going on on the other TDI board by people that have seen the failure of these HPFP's first hand, including our own Dweisel.

Frankly, I'm not at all surprised how VW has handled this... we are talking about it taking 3 YEARS for them to address these HPFP failures here in North America, when Bosch lobbied several years ago to ASTM about lubricity standards for D-975 here in the USA, which are supposed to be at a minimum of 520 microns. Bosch states their pumps need a lot lower micron score, around 460, with 400 or under being quite a safety margin. Will Bosch's 3rd revision on the pump solve the fuel pump failure problem? Time will tell, I hope it's not something that is inherent to the design of that roller, piston cup and bore of the HPFP. :panic:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
There is a serious issue with these TDI engines that is under investagation by US Gov.

Lucky me I just bought one...

Right now it looks like VW is not taking much responsiblity for a faulty fuel pump - blaming it on bad gas or wrong gas... Hard to believe there are 160 owners out there who put gasoline in their TDI's! This is a very serious problem and we should all be on the watch.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-02-11/gov-t-expands-investigation-of-vw-diesel-cars.html

WASHINGTON (AP) — The government's highway safety agency expanded its investigation Friday into possible engine problems in 100,000 Volkswagen diesel cars.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said it has received 160 complaints and field reports about engines stalling or losing power. The reports involve 2009 and 2010 model year Jettas and 2010 models of the Golf and the Audi A3 with TDI clean diesel engines.

The safety agency said one minor crash has been reported related to a failure of the car's high pressure fuel pump. About half of the reports describe engines stalling, with many of them occurring at highway speeds in traffic.

Volkswagen told the government that the problem could be related to gasoline contamination from drivers pumping the wrong fuel. A VW spokeswoman said Friday it was taking the investigation seriously and cooperating with NHTSA.

The investigation began in August. NHTSA said it would upgrade its investigation to review the design of the high pressure fuel pump and the reports of motorists using gasoline fuel in the diesel engines.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
23,902 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
There is a serious issue with these TDI engines that is under investagation by US Gov.

Lucky me I just bought one...

Right now it looks like VW is not taking much responsiblity for a faulty fuel pump - blaming it on bad gas or wrong gas... Hard to believe there are 160 owners out there who put gasoline in their TDI's! This is a very serious problem and we should all be on the watch.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-02-11/gov-t-expands-investigation-of-vw-diesel-cars.html

WASHINGTON (AP) — The government's highway safety agency expanded its investigation Friday into possible engine problems in 100,000 Volkswagen diesel cars.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said it has received 160 complaints and field reports about engines stalling or losing power. The reports involve 2009 and 2010 model year Jettas and 2010 models of the Golf and the Audi A3 with TDI clean diesel engines.

The safety agency said one minor crash has been reported related to a failure of the car's high pressure fuel pump. About half of the reports describe engines stalling, with many of them occurring at highway speeds in traffic.

Volkswagen told the government that the problem could be related to gasoline contamination from drivers pumping the wrong fuel. A VW spokeswoman said Friday it was taking the investigation seriously and cooperating with NHTSA.

The investigation began in August. NHTSA said it would upgrade its investigation to review the design of the high pressure fuel pump and the reports of motorists using gasoline fuel in the diesel engines.
He has a 2006 Jetta which has a totally different engine. I have moved your post to an existing thread that talks about this issue.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
126 Posts
Does anyone have a copy of the service bulletin regarding this matter?
"VW TB V011011 2023624 and Audi TB A011008 2023360-1"

I am interested to see what the official guidance from VW is with regards to assessing and determining the root cause of the fault.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Dad just had a stall and no restart on his 2011 jetta, and guess what blown up hpfp. Luckily it happened at 58k so this one was free. Next one will be on us. Not good
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top