[vwottawa]

Coming from a slush box style automatic transmission, i am used to putting the car in Neutral and gliding to a stop at low speeds. Then to start moving I just pull the shifter back into "D" and away I go.

With the DSG transmission, it locks after I stop and forces me to press the brake to get back into "D".

I was wondering if it is possible to turn this off, so that i don't have to press the brake and the DSG will just let me go between "N" and "D" as I please.

I suspect the answer will be a resounding no, as I am guessing that this behaviour of having to press the brake to get from "N" to "D" while stopped is inherent to the DSG mechatronics logic, but I had to ask just to be sure.

 

[chittychittybangbang]

I believe no. If not inherent to mechatronics, do you hear a click in the shift lever area? If so, it's from a lock out solenoid in the shift lever's base.

 

[vwottawa]

I dont hear a click so much as I do feel it when that solenoid you refer to locks me out. As soon as I touch the brake, I feel it again in the shifter disengaging.

I guess my next question is, can I make it such that the solenoid does not engage, hopefully via VCDS and not mechanical intervention.

 

[DAVE PARKER]

No. You cannot defeat this safety interlock. The transmission control unit is looking for a signal from the brake light switch that indicates your foot is pushing on the pedal before it will release the interlock.
This is all a throwback to the "unintended acceleration" issues with the Audi 5000 models of the eighties.

Change your driving habits.

cheers
dave parker

 

[Outrider]

The Chimera of DSG...

No. You cannot defeat this safety interlock. The transmission control unit is looking for a signal from the brake light switch that indicates your foot is pushing on the pedal before it will release the interlock.
This is all a throwback to the "unintended acceleration" issues with the Audi 5000 models of the eighties.

Change your driving habits.

cheers
dave parker

Interesting comment about driving habits and the DSG...

I have a DSG JSW TDI. It's a fascinating beast. I probably should have got a manual, but I share the car occasionally with my wife. She can drive a manual, but she fears uphill starts. So I have a DSG, but I'm intent to get the most out of it...

I've taken to coasting in appropriate situations by popping into N. I've only occasionally noted the lock out. I suspect this is because I was breaking slightly as I put the car back into gear to use engine braking.

The "problem" comes when you want to accelerate out of neutral while coasting. It's not so intuitive to step on the brake in these circumstances.

So, do you train yourself to react counter-intuitively or do you just give up coasting?

Haven't figured that out yet.

 

[vwottawa]

The scenario you describe, I do all the time as well, glide in Neutral and pop back in Drive to carry on. I have not seen the neutral lock ever happen in this case.

I only ever see it lock when I am fully stopped or stopped and creeping fwd/bkwd. This is when I need to depress the brake to get back into Drive.

 

[DAVE PARKER]

I probably should elaborate on my comment of "Change your driving habits".

I work at a facility that does security driver training for government, military, and law enforcement personnel. I teach those folks how to react to attacks, how to use a vehicle as a weapon, how to escape and evade, and advance driving techniques like four wheel vehicle dynamics, skid control and recovery, threshold braking, and serpentine negotiation.

One of the things taught in basic automotive vehicle dynamics is there is a need for the physical connection between the engine/ transmission drive line and the tires contacting the road.
When a vehicle is moving and the driver is "on the gas" (throttle on) the tire is physically gripping the road (through friction). When the vehicle is moving but the driver is on the brakes, clutch, or coasting this physical grip of the tire to the road goes away, and the tire is just rolling on the surface (much less friction). This makes the driver of the vehicle a "victim" of physics. Now, I don't know about you folks, but I do not like to be a victim, ever. So the lesson learned here is do not coast in neutral.

It also cannot be good for the long term life of the DSG transmission to shift it into neutral, then while moving shift it back into drive. I am sure that it puts undue stress on the pressure valves and planetary gears in the transmission. Not to mention the "upsetting" of the balance of the vehicle when having to press the brake pedal to get the car back into drive.

Just my thoughts....

cheers
dave parker

 

[chittychittybangbang]

I am confused by some of your comments, when the car is coasting or rolling there is more available friction. A tire can give 100% friction. If you're in a maximum performance turn, you want all the friction to go to turning, not braking or accelerating. Adding brake or throttle can overload the tires and upset the balance of the car, resulting in a loss of traction.

FYI, the DSG does not have planetary gears: http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/DSG-faq-VW-Audi.htm here's a little more about the system. It's like 2 manuals combined into 1.

 

[golfTDI1]

Yeah, I'm with chitty on this. Dave, I'm sure you are an expert in your field...and I believe I do understand what you mean by being a "victim" because if the wheels are disconnected from the driveline and you are about to get rear ended and you see that, you are not able to just punch the gas and turn the wheel. (I know thats not quite what you meant but in this instance that works for me) When I'm coasting in to stop with my manual trans, there is a point where I have to press the clutch otherwise I stall...its a consequence of the beast as you know. But there are very few situations that would require me to need that available power.

Also, there is no chance of wear on the trans other than the DSG possibly selecting the wrong gear, or slipping the clutch a little more to get the speeds right...but the chances of that are no more likely than if there was another scenario.

If you notice, you come to a smoother stop, quicker in neutral. You don't have the driveline still trying to rotate the wheels forward whilst braking, and even downshift engine braking unless done manually is very conservative and favors one wheel anyway.

One day while driving through an unfamiliar neighborhood I realized I was about 200-300 ft from a red traffic light at abt 60 mph (yes I was going a little faster than I should have) and that light came out of nowhere. I was driving an auto trans at the time. Went to neutral and punched the brakes (no ABS). The car reacted much better than it did other times I needed full brakes, stopped nearly on a dime. I even had extra room to the light. There are many other machines that when operated under emergency circumstances disconnect tractive power, railroad locomotives are an example, even dynamic braking is not usually utilized. It only makes sense. I've also driven front wheel drives in the snow and under braking had the front end slide out because of that slight forward force favored to one wheel. Its like torque steer in reverse. I've always gone to neutral and coaxed the car to a stop. You feel like you have so much more control.

The only type of transmission that is not as forgiving to this treatment is a traditional automatic with a torque converter, but my old toyota has been driven like that for 260+ thousand miles and I've never opened that tranny up for anything other than a fluid and filter change.

To the OP, the only reason I can think of why going between neutral and drive on the fly may be a problem for the DSG is if the software cannot compensate for it, and I highly doubt that so I'd give defeating the interlock a try. Sorry I don't have details how to do it though!

 

[vwottawa]

Quote " .... To the OP, the only reason I can think of why going between neutral and drive on the fly may be a problem for the DSG is if the software cannot compensate for it, and I highly doubt that so I'd give defeating the interlock a try. Sorry I don't have details how to do it though! "

So I to do not know if it possible to defeat the interlock but here is something that I do as well that make me think it is possible:

Something when reversing the car at a very slow speed, I can slide the shifter directly from R to D going straight through N without having to depress the brake. I realize that if I was going at a higher rate of speed this cause more stress on the DSG but I am only talking about a creep here as in manouvering from fwd to bkwd whilst lining up in a parking spot.

Does anyone think that the good folks over at Ross Tech would know about how to do this, or is it more of a take it apart and unhook something solution?

 

[golfTDI1]

very interesting...not sure if ross tech would have the answer, my guess would be no. Also, I have the DSG repair manual and I wasn't able to determine anything from that. You can manually defeat the mechanical interlock, but then you would be able to go from park all the way to S without pressing the brake and you'd still have to press the button on the shift selector to unlock the gate, rather than being able to swipe from R to D or N to D.

If you did want to defeat the brake interlock completely, there is an emergency release on the right side of the cover (you have to pry up the cover around the shift selector) there is a yellow plastic handle there. It gets depressed in order to defeat the interlock, all you'd need to do is figure out how to keep it down permanently.