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Has anyone switched to these tires? They're surprisingly available for the OEM wheel/tire size and are reasonably priced for pretty much the best street tires currently available.
 

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For a Porsche Cayman S, I would get them. For a TDI, I wouldn't pay the premium since the rest of the suspension won't match it. You'll be overtire-d They are excellent premium performance street tires but I feel it would be a waste of money except on a sports car.
 

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I'm not sure about tires in relation to the TDI, but I've always found in better to be "overtired" with previous cars. I'd rather be able to let the suspension do all it's capable of, rather than run out of tire grip first. My most recent experience being with my 335i that had an M3 suspension conversion along with Koni/Swift coilovers and 245/275 Conti DW tires and the handling was phenomenal. Changing only the wheels/tires back to stock 225 all seasons completely killed the majority of the handling prowess. So at least from my recent experience, I'd say put the best tires you can on it. It's not a super sporty suspension on the TDI, but I think it's definitely good enough to make use of better rubber and being in LA, you can use summer tires all year rather than a compromised all season that doesn't really excel at anything.
 

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Ok, I take it back since Pathy01 is right, they aren't a waste of money except on sports cars, I really mean they are a waste of money on a standard TDI. Cheaper tires (cheap vs. michelin's top of the line sports tire) will max out the suspension on a TDI for my driving style so I would personally go with a more comfortable and quiet tire since my TDI doesn't have the cup edition suspension, aftermarket sport suspension, and is used for mostly driving long distances.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
They're actually less expensive than some OEM tires currently, Maybe Michelin is pricing them to promote sales of their new tire design? I'm curious how they compare to less sporty tires in regards to noise and comfort. Supposedly they're quiet but in comparison to what?

I will be picking up a Golf soon and am contemplating putting these tires on immediately, especially after reading complaints about the OEM tires.
 

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I don't know how you can be over tired. I'm running 255's on an upgraded suspension and I don't think I'm over tired. Then again the 255 was because I went with low rolling resistance tires. What's wrong with driving a station wagon that bumps on 1g lateral? :D

I don't think good performance tires are a waste of money. First the CR20 produces lots of torque, so the extra traction helps on launch. Next, it comes with excellent brakes, so better stopping (even with the 255's my ABS kicks on for hard stops at freeway speed). Finally, while cornering won't see as big of an improvement with just a tire upgrade compared to retuning the suspension to match, tires are the one biggest improvement you can make to cornering. I ran Bridgestone RE050 Pole Positions on my car before going with my current setup and was really amazed at the improvement in the car from a tire upgrade. Granted I went from a set of OEM Hankooks so a melted fudge popsicle could have been a traction improvement.
 

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Not sure on the noise & comfort levels of the Michelin PSS but there are extreme performance summer tires with excellent levels of both. I've had Conti Extreme DW tires on my JCW MINI & BMW 335i and they were very quiet and comfortable. Even with 245/35/19 & 275/30/19 tires, they rode better, were quieter and more comfortable than the stock 225/45/17 (albeit runflat) tires on the 335i. Treadwear is also better than most similar performing tires. Conti really stepped it up and outperformed the Michelin PS2, which is now being replaced by the PSS so I'll bet the new Michelins are just as good if not better. I would say the Michelins most likely have a little harder ride as they tend to favor a very stiff sidewall for turn in response on a track vs. the Conti being designed more as an everyday street tire that can perform just about as well on a track.
 

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I have the Conti DWS on a BMW 135i and really like them. Great wear, great handling and so far good wear. I will strongly consider them when my Jetta TDI needs tires. Talk to Gil at Tirerack he is a PRO at helping you pick tires. I ordered mine from there and it turned out well.
 

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Yep--I've got 'em, and I like them very much. We fitted Pilot Super Sports in the 17-inch stock size (225/45) to the front only.

I have iconoclastic ideas about tires; I consider sticky tires to be cheap insurance. Prior to buying our JSW, we had only one car: a Mini Cooper S JCW with Bridgestone RE-11 tires. They're outstanding, and they wear well despite a treadwear rating of 180. The RE-11s also stuck like glue when I had to dodge a driver who pulled out without looking. It was a close call--it felt like inches, but was probably more like 3-5 feet. I believe I would have hit the other car if I were running the stock Mini tires.

When I read about the new PSS, it promised to approach RE-11 levels of dry grip; it might even exceed the RE-11's wet grip. What's more, the PSS has a treadwear rating of 300, which is surprisingly close to the JSW stock rubber: Continental ProContacts with a treadwear rating of 400.

I convinced my wife that we should buy the PSSes for the front (~$180 each at the Tire Rack) but we were tight on money, so we skipped the rears. I've done this before on other cars and have been happy with the results; I'm happy with this setup as well. In a perfect world, we'd have a PSS at each corner, but this is a pretty good tradeoff for us.

There are some who would wag their fingers at unmatched tire pairs, but those people should hold their fire. The JSW understeers considerably less than it did without the PSSes installed. Even when I turn off the traction/stability control, I still have to abuse the car (trail braking and drop throttle, plus jerky steering wheel inputs) to get any significant oversteer. With the traction/stability control on, I can't get *any* oversteer.

With sticky tires on the front, we get vastly reduced braking distances (especially in the wet), much higher limits for transient maneuvers and better balance in sweeping turns. In short, we get about 90% of the benefit for 50% of the cost. We live in Arizona, so I plan to run this combination all year round. If we moved back to the Midwest, however, I'd invest in a set of four snow tires (and wheels) to use in the winter.

So I have no qualms about recommending the Pilot Super Sports; they're just fantastic tires at a very good price. I don't recommend installing them in mismatched pairs as we did; that's something I feel comfortable with due to my background and experience (a bit of autocross and a lot of mechanical engineering).

Cheers,

Jason
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Fantastic post anthros. Did your car follow the highway grooves more after installation of the PSS tires? You could immediately tell the difference in braking/handling?
 

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Unfortunately, I can't speak to how the new tires affect tramlining--Arizona roads tend to be in very good condition (which makes sense given how car-centric this state is). Also, I've got less than 1000 miles on the new tires, so my impressions are preliminary.

Braking "feel" is unchanged--in theory, the only difference in braking would be higher maximum deceleration--feel shouldn't change much at all.

I'm always a bit dubious whenever people rely on their intuition to tell them how their cars are performing. Before installing the Pilot SuperSports, I did a braking test from 50-0 mph using Dynolicious, an iPhone app. The JSW on stock tires stopped at around 0.90 Gs. (The Mini Cooper S on RE11s stopped at ~1.05 Gs on the same surface). I have yet to do the same test with the new tires in place--I've been waiting for them to break in. They're certainly broken in now; I just need to make time to do the test.

Subjectively, turn-in feel is a bit better, probably due to stiffer sidewalls. (I ran 36 PSI on all four corners both before and after). More substantially, the car's tendency to understeer on turn-in is much reduced. Once the turn's been initiated, the rear tires (stock) begin squealing long before the fronts do. On the stock tires, the JSW regularly produced ~0.83 Gs on one particular corner. I'll get a lateral acceleration number for the new tires at the same time I do the braking test.

I'd like to clarify one thing from my previous post: I mentioned "better balance through sweeping turns." IMNSHO, that's due to the mismatched tire compounds. I don't mean to say that a set of four PSSes will magically reduce understeer. My car might be very well balanced while pulling 0.94 Gs, but it's still going slower than a car with PSSes on all four corners pulling, say, 0.97Gs while on the verge of understeer.

The Bridgestone RE-11s on our Mini seem to be on track to last ~20,000 miles, which is quite good. The JSW is 400-600 lbs heavier and produces a little more torque than the Mini. I expect the Pilot SuperSports to last ~30,000 miles on the JSW, which is astonishing for such a high-performance tire. Realistically, I'll probably get a new pair at ~20,000 miles, install those on the front and put the worn PSSes on the rear.

I don't think any of this undercuts ChittyChittyBangBang's opinion--most drivers don't care about sticky tires, or they don't think the decreased stopping distances are worth the extra expense. That's not my position, but it's a reasonable one. Our JSW is over-tired insofar as the tires force the suspension out of its optimal "operating range" when cornering hard. In these situations, we get a lot of body roll and probably substantial (and sub-optimal) camber changes. For a competition car, you'd want to change the suspension so that its limits match those of the tires. I'd argue you'd want to do the same for a fun-to-drive road car.

In fact, that's exactly what we've done for our Mini: We installed Koni FSD shocks/struts and a stiffer rear anti-roll bar to take maximum advantage of our sticky RE-11s. That setup is nearly ideal for a road car that gets autocrossed. But sticky tires alone allow our JSW to dodge road hazards it otherwise couldn't, even if the suspension takes a second to settle down after a fast transition. Since the JSW carries my wife and children, the agility/stopping advantage is worth the cost (at least to me).


I hope this helps!

Jason

P.S. We've been very, very pleased with the Koni FSD dampers on our Mini. If Koni makes them available for the Jetta Sportwagen (ideally for its stock springs) I'd install those sooner rather than later.
 

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They're actually less expensive than some OEM tires currently, Maybe Michelin is pricing them to promote sales of their new tire design? I'm curious how they compare to less sporty tires in regards to noise and comfort. Supposedly they're quiet but in comparison to what?

I will be picking up a Golf soon and am contemplating putting these tires on immediately, especially after reading complaints about the OEM tires.
IMHO, there is no need to replace the OEM tires on a new car. The stock Contiprocontacts have been pretty good for me. Now, when they NEED replacing, sure I will try something different. To toss perfectly good new tires because a few people complain about them seems silly to me. See how you like them first...
 

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Discussion Starter #13
IMHO, there is no need to replace the OEM tires on a new car. The stock Contiprocontacts have been pretty good for me. Now, when they NEED replacing, sure I will try something different. To toss perfectly good new tires because a few people complain about them seems silly to me. See how you like them first...
It's too late now but I was planning to sell the tires off the new car to recoup the costs of the upgraded tires. At least I have a baseline now.
 

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I have some updated numbers. After installing Pilot SS tires on the front axle only, my peak braking acceleration increased from 0.90 Gs to 1.08 Gs. My peak lateral acceleration increased from ~0.83 Gs to 1.01 Gs.

Nota bene: these peak values are not comparable to the numbers you'd see in a car magazine. Realistically, steady-state lateral acceleration would probably be around 0.94 Gs. But braking distances should be about 20% less than with the stock tires, and I'm very happy with that.

Cheers,

Jason
 

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I have some updated numbers. After installing Pilot SS tires on the front axle only, my peak braking acceleration increased from 0.90 Gs to 1.08 Gs. My peak lateral acceleration increased from ~0.83 Gs to 1.01 Gs.

Nota bene: these peak values are not comparable to the numbers you'd see in a car magazine. Realistically, steady-state lateral acceleration would probably be around 0.94 Gs. But braking distances should be about 20% less than with the stock tires, and I'm very happy with that.

Cheers,

Jason

Wow thats pretty impressive gains
 
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