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Discussion Starter #1
My 2005+ PD has twice "siezed up" after being driven someplace and turned off.
Pulling and replacing the starter (once a new (rebuilt) starter, 2nd time simply removing and putting the same one back in) "solved" the issue. It's now seized up for a third time, after being driven home and parked. I've pulled the starter and the teeth are a bit worn, but not excessive. I'm guessing there is something hosed on the ring gear? How does one inspect it without pulling the whole thing apart?
And on that note... any pix / videos / ptrs on how to pull it if it needs replacement? I did some searching but came up with nothing.
Thanks,
Gary
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Have your searched TDI Wiki?
I think so.
That link is just for removing the starter; I've got the old starter out already. I'm wondering if there is an easy way to inspect the whole ring gear without pulling the engine. I'm suspicious it might be messed up because I've had it hang up with two different starter motors, and I'd like it check it out before just sticking a third one in. The first one may well have been worn, as it had 160K or so on it. The second one had less than 10K, maybe way less, but it was a rebuilt one from China and I didn't put it in so don't know much more than that.
Thanks for the reply,
Gary
 

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You can only see part of the ring gear through the starter motor hole. You would have to turn the engine over to inspect every part of the ring gear.

When you fit the starter motor you lubricate the parts that could stick bushes and pinion.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
You can only see part of the ring gear through the starter motor hole. You would have to turn the engine over to inspect every part of the ring gear.
That's what I figured; I thought maybe there was a reasonable way to turn the engine a bit at a time by hand to view the whole thing.
When you fit the starter motor you lubricate the parts that could stick bushes and pinion.
I wasn't aware of that. I presume you use a different lubricant for the brushes and the pinion. Graphite for the brushes and some kind of grease for the pinon?
 

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I use engine oil from an oil can because you get friction dust as the clutch plate wears. If you use grease that will stick to the grease.
 
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You might not have a starter problem at all either. Take the starter to autozone and they can bench test it for free. What might actually be the problem is a bad ground causing the starter to act like its seized.
 

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You can only see part of the ring gear through the starter motor hole. You would have to turn the engine over to inspect every part of the ring gear.

When you fit the starter motor you lubricate the parts that could stick bushes and pinion.
I think it eludes the OP that turning the motor the motor over is rotating the crank with a socket, not turning the key and praying you'll see a different section of the ring gear.
 

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You answered your own question so to speak. You put a garbage Chinese rebuilt starter in your car. I had a garbage AutoBone rebuild that would do that and found out that if I rapped the started with a rock when it wouldn't turn the engine over and like magic the starter would turn the engine over and start the car.

Putting garbage parts in your car usually cost more in the long run than using quality parts the first time. The failure mode for a ring gear is when it gets chewed up by a loose or garbage starter and there will be locations on the ring gear with teeth missing so the starter would spin but not engage anything.

Replacing the ring gear would require removing the transaxle and fly wheel and either buying a new flywheel or having a machine shop replace your ring gear. To replace a ring gear, your flywheel has to be heated in an oven as what holds the ring gear to the flywheel is an interference fit between the ring gear and flywheel.

I have 188K miles on my OEM starter, however I have never cranked the engine more than 5 seconds. How many miles are on your car? Premature death to a starter is usually caused by people cranking the engine for long periods of time when an engine won't start and severely over heating the starter.
 

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Replacing the ring gear would require removing the transaxle and fly wheel and either buying a new flywheel or having a machine shop replace your ring gear. To replace a ring gear, your flywheel has to be heated in an oven as what holds the ring gear to the flywheel is an interference fit between the ring gear and flywheel.
To replace the ring gear you use a sharp chisel and to cut it of the flywheel. Put the ring gear in an oven not the flywheel, that has to be as cool as possible. I've used oxy acetylene cutting torch has it has a big nozzle without an oven. The ring gear is shrunk fit to the flywheel.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
A mechanic friend came over and we checked out the ring gear as follows:
On the opposite side of the engine from the starter (i.e. the passenger side), there is a rubber cover on the inside of the engine pulley wheel. Remove it.
With a 19mm socket on the end of the shaft you just uncovered, you can slowly turn the engine. One person turns the engine, the other peers into the starter hole and takes a look at the teeth on the ring gear.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
You might not have a starter problem at all either. Take the starter to autozone and they can bench test it for free. What might actually be the problem is a bad ground causing the starter to act like its seized.
Thanks, I will check that out; or at least clean everything up before stuffing a starter back in.
 

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A mechanic friend came over and we checked out the ring gear as follows:
On the opposite side of the engine from the starter (i.e. the passenger side), there is a rubber cover on the inside of the engine pulley wheel. Remove it.
With a 19mm socket on the end of the shaft you just uncovered, you can slowly turn the engine. One person turns the engine, the other peers into the starter hole and takes a look at the teeth on the ring gear.
What were the the results of the inspection?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
What were the the results of the inspection?
Ring gear looked good. You could see where the starter typically engaged, but no heavily worn or broken teeth.
So I'm going to put a new starter in tomorrow after cleaning up all the contacts and contact surfaces, especially the mounting surfaces for ground connection.
And keep fingers crossed.
 

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The thing is with pre engaged starter motors they engage the flywheel ring gear before they start to turn. Its the older intertia starter motor that spins and the pinion is thrown into the flywheel ring gear. Those damage ring gears over along time. As I've said make sure its lubricated before you fit it.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
The thing is with pre engaged starter motors they engage the flywheel ring gear before they start to turn. Its the older intertia starter motor that spins and the pinion is thrown into the flywheel ring gear. Those damage ring gears over along time. As I've said make sure its lubricated before you fit it.
Thanks for the explanation and reminder.
 
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Hello friend Gary.
First things first. No all of us speak pilots mambo jambo. What is a 2005 +PD?
Second things second: What "siezed up" ?
What means "siezed up" ?
My greetings to you.
Carlos
 

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Discussion Starter #19
First things first. No all of us speak pilots mambo jambo. What is a 2005 +PD?
Second things second: What "siezed up" ?
What means "siezed up" ?
"2005+ PD" is a Late model 2005 Jetta TDI with Pumpe Duse (PD) engine
"seized up" => The engine would not even turn over when I attempted to start it.
Starts fine after replacing the starter. Ring gear was fine. May have been a bad ground at the starter.
 
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