VW TDI forum, Audi, Porsche, and Chevy Cruze Diesel forum banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
178 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited by Moderator)
I've never had gas in the diesel before, around these parts the nozzles won't fit into the gas tanks.
They're designed to big for that. They're also a different color nozzle here.

I had about an 1/8 of a tank of gas poured in my jetta, there was about 2/3 of a tank of diesel,
The guy downstairs did it, he doesn't seem to like me calling him out on his lies and theivery, he's a scammer, which I for one, never go for.
Plain and simple, he don't like me setting him straight.

Anyways, the jetta started up fine, and away I went, I got 1/2 a block and it started making noise galore, stalled and smoked quite a bit. I steered it to the curb, let it sit a few minutes, and started it up, started smoking and the noises started again, I think I can attribute some or all (?) the gray smoke out the engine from a cracked manifold, it's not a big crack.

I turned it around and drove it home, (1/2 a block) it never stalled, never smoked, but it was noisy.
parked it, shut it off, waited a bit, then I started it up a few more times, no more black smoke out the exhaust pipe, it turned to white, it's not steam like I've read, it's white exhaust.

I got out of the car and went inspecting, I suspected the tenant of pouring gas in it, so I went straight to where the fuel gets pumped in, I stuck my finger in. it smelt like gas, I opened the hood, I started looking around, I took the lines off the fuel filter, Gas!
Not long after that, I had the taste of gas in my mouth and the tingling on my tounge.

I phoned the police and I reported it, we decided on getting more of the proof in the pudding before proceeding. I'm in the midst of it now. Which, I'm really not into.
It's been suggested I get some of the mixture out of the jetta, and throw a cigerette in it to see if it burns. I'm having some pure diesel brought here. We're going to test it
.
I had under a 1/2 tank of diesel in it, it's now registering a 1/2 of a tank. I've estimated 2/3 diesel was in it. It Was at the line under the 1/2 tank.

Has anyone else had gas put into their diesel engine? If so, how did yours react? Violently?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
178 Posts
Discussion Starter #4 (Edited by Moderator)
Wow chitty!! That's really something, Thanks for sharing it.

I've been digging, and came up with these.. Gas in Diesel will ignite instantly when introduced to the cylinder will respond violently, becuz the CR is way above the peak power CR for gasoline. (I don't know what CR is, but....)
.........

Near 20% gas ratio throws the timing off. Engine knocks and stalls.
........

Gas will also "cut" the diesel fuel and will damage high dollar injection pumps and can cause injector damage due to the instant, violent combustion and will lead to injector leaking or nailing which can destroy a diesel in seconds.
........

If gas is mixed into a diesel engine, the gas will strip the engine of lubricants making the metal parts of an engine grate together and fall apart, then damaging the fuel pump and fuel injection system, destroying fuel pump seals.
........

Gas and Diesel will seperate after a couple of hours, gas on top, diesel on the bottom.
.......

Will ignite in compression cycle & make a heck of a noise., the exhaust will be quite smokey, and have low power.
** when having diesel tested, specify "gravity" **
.......

There was more but I caught the drift. I hope this never happens to anyone else. And Never be afraid to speak the truth, no matter the cost, just don't head down to that same level of mentality of those who are already there.

Thanks mr rooney.. I hope you never have this problem too. I'm getting a locking fuel cap.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
178 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Well chitty....I got some fuel out from the water seperater, put some in a tin can, lit the match and tossed it in, gas burns, diesel doesn't right? It flamed up, it's gas.

I'll have to bring a sample to vw dealer, and they can have it tested. I already know the conclusion, GAS!!

After that, as much as I'm not this back an forth to court stuff, I'm charging him. I have to.
In the meantime I'll have to drain the tank, see if I can find the damage.

boy..I'm gonna be a real mechanic soon.
Thanks chitty, good video.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Yep not good....

JG,
That sucks. The flash point average of diesel is about 140F....gas at that mixture is significantly lower. The timing of the engine is syncronized based on a "base" understanding of when enough pressure exists in the cylinder to create heat above that point to cause ignition. It is then optimized further to obtain a balance between power output, thermal efficancy etc. (at the factory) to produce a optimum compromise. With the flash point being so low you are going to get early ignition (detonation), suffer from power loss and it will rattle like hell. The noise being the audible indication, the problem on the inside could be much more fatal. Diesel pumps, injectors and piping is optimized to resist that fuel properties. Gas has such different chemical characteristics I would think those components seals could be at risk. Further most diesels actually burn only about 25% of the fuel sent to the engine. The rest is used in the lubrication of those components and the removal of heat before it is returned to the tank. That lack of lubricity could cause scoring of your injection pump plungers and other moving parts. Early (or too late) ignition is a prime cause for burning out the valves on your head as firing is likely occuring before they are closed fully and heat is migrating across the seats. In proper quanities it could creep up the intake and give you a face full of flame so don't stick your face in there.
The thing you have going for you is that you didn't drive very far. Beyond getting a sample to send to a lab you may want to send a friend to the gas station to covertly grab a bit of gas and diesel. Folks like blackstone will tell you detecting exacting ratios (%) of gas/diesel mixtures is very hard but they will certainly be able to tell you if it exists and that report might be handy in a small claims court. The two samples (unmixed) from the pumps would allow you to get a detailed spectrometric analysis (a fingerprint) that could be matched to the mixed sample from yor tank..... if you need to take the issue further.
Beyond that the thing that really sucks is that if the guy owned up to putting the gas in the tank it could have easily been towed to a shop, pushed into a bay and drained and flushed for about $150 dollars. The price he may now pay will be much steeper.
No matter what do not start the car again until the tank is drained. When you are able to drain the tank fill it with fresh Diesel first and then track down the return line from the pump to the tank. Disconnect that so that when you start the car the bad fuel in the lines and pumps can't get back to the tank. Allow that to drain into a bucket when you start the car....at idle only until about a half gallon flows into it. After that you should be reasonably sure that the rails and pump are purged, that you didn't put that crap back in the tank via the return line. You should now be safe to drive the car.
Take it easy until you run through the first tank. If there is any residual stuff in there you will do some good put pedaling the car lightly. This will keep the firing pressures in the cylinders lower and minimize any damage done buy any small pre-ignition that may occur.
Sorry for your trouble. Matt
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
178 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Wow.. That's allot of info, I appreciate it, I'll have to read it over, a few times. Thanks!

I'm wondering if anyone knows what I can look for, in terms of damage?.. is there something certain to look for on the injector pump, etc....
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,942 Posts
Don't fret about that just yet, first get the fuel drained and get some fresh diesel in there and see how it runs, in my experience it's fairly rare that actual damage gets done even though the potential is there. Get a new filter and it's probably worth puting in some additive to help give things an extra lubrication. I've seen it a few times and quite often the car has ran better, like the petrol/gas has actually cleaned the engine out. I remember years back that farmers used to stick some petrol/gas in their diesel motors once in a while to help clean them out lol, rough but it seemed to work plus you have the advantage that your car is a reasonably older one so even less likely to be damaged. Like I said, get the remaining fuel out and get some fresh diesel in and fit a new fuel filter and see how it goes.:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
178 Posts
I'll get it drained, I have to get some of those red jerry cans first, it's been rainy here, and when it rains my dad don't come off the Island, it looks like rain again today, my sister's gone out of town too. She'll be back in a week,
If it rains again on Monday, I'll get the cans delivered and I'll do it in the rain, guess I should get my swimmin trucks ready.

There's no room under the vw to drain it from the water seperater, I never did buy those stands for the vw to sit up on. I didn't really need them. I have to figure out how many cans I need for a 1/2 a tank, and where I'm going to drain it from. o boy. I only know gallons, I don't know liters. I know it's $40.00 to fill it up, so there's $20.00 worth of mixed fuel in it right now.

I'm trying not to fret Seatman, when this is proven in a court of law, he is going to have to reimberse me every penny. He's easy to catch in his lies, you don't even Have to catch the guy, he blurts it all out, and doesn't even realize he's doing it, so the court will surely see and hear it too.
I'll likely give my friend a call, way we go. I think I have to get about 5 or 6 big red jugs to drain it, I have no idea.

Do you think it will be worse the longer it sits? o man o man.
Guess what else it did too, the timing belt frayed, in one spot, there is 3 or 4 strands loose, rubber. It's on the outside of the engine, out towards the fender, where this no nothing, no sprockets, nothing there to catch on at all. It couldn't have caught on the lower drive cover, it would have happened earlier, and I was under the hood, every day, especially after I was out in it. I parked it and popped the hood..........every time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
178 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
You were reading my 1st thread, weren't you.. I have 1/2 brown hair, and 1/2 blonde on the other side. I'm in my pics.
my top lip is pink, and my bottom lip I paint it purple.
hahahaha, don't mind me, I have brown hair.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,942 Posts
Hey up, I think you'll be quite safe with the petrol/gas isitting in the cars fuel system, it's only burning it in the engine that can really cause the problems.:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
178 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Ok 10-4 Seatman, Thanks! I won't be burning it in the engine, not till new diesel is put in it. He go be sum surprized when i drive past him.
People who do these sorts of things to other people, must think,// o! they'll never know.

If it rains tomorrow, I'll be giving my friend a call, he'll zoom me around where I need to go.
I'll do it in the rain, I don't care. I want it outta there. New diesel put in, and I'll have my vw back,, again.

Plus I'm going to buy a Deer Camera now, I'll put it in the tree out back. I hope they make them, so it goes straight to the computer. instead of running getting the chip to upload. then run climb the tree, get it back in there b4 he sees.
I hope they make the deer camera I need.

Does vw test fuel for this kind of thing?? Lab test the diesel mix?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
178 Posts
I didn't think it was called for either Cogen Man, but.. whatever I guess ay.

I went and got the 4 big yellow diesel fuel jugs and some injector cleaner, with fuel conditioners in it. I had a vw mechanic here after he closed up his shop, he went to the fuel filter, took something off at the bottom of the filter, looked at me and said, there's gas in there. It was good, cuz he got here, in between the rain and storm.
He;s writting me up a letter, and he said he would deliver it tomorrow after he closes.
I'm glad it sat, instead of draining it and running cleaner through it, it's better he did his thing, (as is) rather than having the mixed fuels in containers for him to test. Now I just have to get a sample to the vw dealer, he said they smell it. his showroom is going to reek of gasoline. I'm going to ask him to take it to the vw mechanic there, and have the vw mechanic take a wiff.

I was on the phone all morning trying to find a lab to send a sample to....I couldn't find one, I called Government agencies, garages, I even emailed throughout the province here. I couldn't find a one.
We had major rain today with lots of wind and thunder and lightning. The thunder was unreal, ka-BANG!!!! BANG BANG!!! BANG!!! woo hooo, Enough to startle one, and send them packin under the bed. or down in the cellar.I videoed it, It was major, maybe that will clear it up for tomorrow. it's been raining and raining some more for days now, hopefully this one coughed it out.

Looking forward to tomorrow now, get the show the road here, and the policeman is back on duty Thursday.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,942 Posts
Well atg least someone's helping you on this one.

The weather has been manky here too, I wouldn't mind a bit of thunder though, love it but no, just rain rain and more boring rain, come on give me a bit of a dry spell for crying out loud lol.:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
178 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Yes, getting a bit of a hand here. thank goodness.

I got the deer cam now, I've been fiddling with it and getting it set up. A must have is another one of those SD cards. I'm useing the one out of my camera, for both of them now. (gotta git one)
This cam goes right into the neibhbors back yard, and onto her porch. If her windows were open I'd probably see in.
It has a nice wide lens too. I thought I\d test it out the 1st night, I no sooner set it down, and there was the Racoon, lookin in at me again. It took his pic and now it's my screen saver pic.

So, sometime last night someone cut the lock on the guy downstairs, bikes, they stole his bicycles. 2 of them and a trailer thing he used for hauling stuff. HA! (it wasn't me, honest, it wasn't) I'm not into that crap.
He went to the police station. (hrs ago) There was at least 3 major siren incidents going on throughout the day, I imagine the police and them are backed up right about now.

I couldn't get any fuel out of the vw, not a drop, I found that odd, I tried putting the hose down into the tank, it would only go so far, so I grabbed the big garden hose, it wouldn't go down there either. Then I went in the trunk, took everything out and found the pop top to get the fuels out that way, I didn't know which hose to loosen, and I didn't want the fuel getting away on me, and ending up in the earth, that's when I said to me, Ok, time to have tow buddy come over.
The jetta is in the garage. He's gonna check all out, make sure no damage was done an stuff. It should be ready this week, i think.

Almost dark outside, time for the dear cam. I need to rig up a pulley thing, It needs to be tilted quite a bit, it's on the 3rd floor, inside the window, and it Still takes the pics. Right through the glass window! hehe. hehehe.......
I don't want it in the tree anymore, someone might spot it, and say....Thanks!!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
22 Posts
Diesel will not melt a styro cup. Petrol will melt a styro cup. Diesel with a trace of petrol in it will damage a styro cup. This is the first thing to do before bothering with expensive analysis.
Up to 20% petrol in diesel in very cold climates is used to winterize diesel. At this level and a short drive shouldn't hurt the IP.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
76 Posts
Diesel will not melt a styro cup. Petrol will melt a styro cup. Diesel with a trace of petrol in it will damage a styro cup. This is the first thing to do before bothering with expensive analysis.
Up to 20% petrol in diesel in very cold climates is used to winterize diesel. At this level and a short drive shouldn't hurt the IP.
biodiesel will melt a styrofoam cup , and biodiesel is quite common now and often unlabeled at pumps, so the styrofoam cup test is virtually useless.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
22 Posts
Petrol will instantly melt a styro cup
Pertol in diesel or bio will very quickly melt a styro cup
B100 takes < 10 minutes to show any softening of a styro cup
A styro cup is the safest instant test for petrol in diesel.
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top