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Discussion Starter #1
In reviewing the procedure for the oil fill on the DSG transmission. Instead of using the kit or fill plug with tube and gravity feed. Would it not work to drain the oil. Put the fill level tube and plug back in. Than when changing the filter add the new oil thru the filter hole on top of the transmission. Install filter, start engine and get transmission to proper tempreture than open the drain plug and let excess oil drain out?
 

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To be honest, I don't see why not. But until someone looks at the system and says, this can't be done and this is why, I think you may be able to do that. When you drain the fluid, please measure how much comes out to see if you add back the same amount. If you want to try this, please post a follow up or any pictures in a DIY.

The only reason I can think of so far is that there's may be a valve on the filter assembly which prevents draining of the filter housing w/engine off since it's on the top. However, if you can press open the valve or if there is no valve, why not fill through there?

EDIT: There is no valve. I tried this and it just takes a long time to fill due to the size of the hole. Here is the finished writeup: http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/multi/dsg-diy-fluid-change-service.htm
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the response. Unfortunatly some of the oil was lost when the DMF failed and rubbed a hole into the side where the right axel bolts to it. Unable to get just the case and New, rebuilt and used were not financial favorable. Case was opened up and front half cleaned in hot tank and than damage was welded up and reassembled. New fly wheel due in today from Dieselgeek, and will be reinstalling soon.
I have not found an exact amount that it holds. I have 6 liters on hand.
 

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You don't fill an exact amount due to fluid that may still be in there. With the car level, you just fill it and let any excess drain out with the drain insert in place and trans fluid at the right temp range.

FYI, I have a writeup contest for step by step pictorials, here are some guidelines: http://www.myturbodiesel.com/forum/f9/writeup-award-gift-certificate-through-sponsor-kermatdi-2295/

Even if you don't want to do a full step by step, can you take any pics of the DSG transmission installation and flywheel installation? These are some writeups that I've been looking for and it would really help others who have to do the same thing. If possible please do take pictures of every step.
 

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Thanks for the response. Unfortunatly some of the oil was lost when the DMF failed and rubbed a hole into the side where the right axel bolts to it. Unable to get just the case and New, rebuilt and used were not financial favorable. Case was opened up and front half cleaned in hot tank and than damage was welded up and reassembled. New fly wheel due in today from Dieselgeek, and will be reinstalling soon.
I have not found an exact amount that it holds. I have 6 liters on hand.
IIRC, the nominal DSG dry fill capacity is about 6.4 liters. During a normal drain from the bottom about 4.5+ liters should drain out. There will also be some fluid in the filter. I filled mine from the top using this $5 funnel from Walmart. The black tip fits perfectly in the hole at the bottom of the filter canister. The funnel hold about one quart of fluid and takes about 5 minutes to drain. The blue part of the funnel is a valve.

 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks Plus 3 Golfer and Chittychittybangbang for the help. Got my DMF in last night and picked up other parts from the dealer today. looks like I may need to head back to the dealer to pick up another liter of oil. Only picked up 6 before so I may be 1/2 liter shy.
 

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So you don't need the special fill tool? You can just fill it from the filter before checking the level?
That's correct. I'd say the only issue with top fill vs using the tool would be that if you don't add enough fluid initially (no fluid drains out during the level check), then it would be a pain in the butt to remove the filter again to add more fluid from the top.

When I did my 40k service, I measured exactly 4.5 liters out + whatever was in the old filter (probably less than a 100 ml). I added about 4.75 liters via the top. Then I checked the fill level with car running at correct fluid temp (measured via VCDS). About 150 ml drained out.

Having read what many others have drained out of their DSG during a fluid change, I'd say that if the DSG is filled to the correct level initially, one should drain out about 4.5 to 4.6 liters of fluid during a normal fluid change. Also, I see no reason to add any more than 5 liters of DSG fluid during a normal drain and fill since the DSG should nominally accept about 4.5 - 4.6 liters to reach the proper fill level. If one would drain less than 4.5 liters out, then one would want to add more than 5 liters so that the proper level can be established. dkuhl1, maybe you should ask a VW tech to verify that the dry fill capacity is 6.4 liters. Here's the link to the dry fill capacity.

Some other notes, the fluid temperature was around 80*F when I started the drain and fill process as the air temp was in the mid 70s, I ran the car up on ramps to remove the belly pan and then backed it off. So, I don't know how fluid temp might affect what drains out. Also, with the wheels on the garage floor, I was easily able to reach underneath the car to remove the drain plug and snorkel and put the catch pan underneath. There was no need to raise the car up to change the fluid using the top fill method. I don't know whether using the tool "requires" raising the car up (possible clearance issues?).
 

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Discussion Starter #9
The Transmission is back up and running. I did fill thru the filter opening. The one down side is it is extremly slow in accepting the oil. I did put in a little more than the 6.4 Liter since the case had been opened and all the oil drained. After installing the filter and putting the air cleaner back on I started the engine and waited for the transmission to get to tempreture and opened the drain plug a some oil did drain out and after it started to drip I installed the plug and buttoned all up. All is okay and running well
 

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Having looked at various sites and threads on this subject, is it essential to check the temperature and drain oil off if you have replaced the oil with the EXACT amount drained out. If one lets the drained oil cool to air temperature just like the new oil and fill through the filter area, would that not suffice?

I only ask because I have no access to VAGcom although I am aware an infra red tool could be used if pointed at the box itself.

As Plus 3 Golfer found above, he drained 4.5L plus 100 ml for the filter, added 4.75L and got 150ml out.
So had he just put 4.6L he would be on the mark. I am sure the odd few ml would not make that much difference as there is a variance allowed in the temperature anyway.

The only negative I can see is you may not change quite as much oil as you would by overfilling and draining but the bulk would be done.
 

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Having looked at various sites and threads on this subject, is it essential to check the temperature and drain oil off if you have replaced the oil with the EXACT amount drained out. If one lets the drained oil cool to air temperature just like the new oil and fill through the filter area, would that not suffice?

I only ask because I have no access to VAGcom although I am aware an infra red tool could be used if pointed at the box itself.

As Plus 3 Golfer found above, he drained 4.5L plus 100 ml for the filter, added 4.75L and got 150ml out.
So had he just put 4.6L he would be on the mark. I am sure the odd few ml would not make that much difference as there is a variance allowed in the temperature anyway.

The only negative I can see is you may not change quite as much oil as you would by overfilling and draining but the bulk would be done.
I doubt a few 100 ml + or - from nominal fill capacity will affect the DSG. It's certainly possible that one could lose count of how many liters of fluid have been added and over / under fill by a liter. The level check at temperature validates that that the proper amount of fluid has been added. If one can keep track of the amount drained and added, one likely can skip the level check.:eek

With respect to changing more of the old fluid by overfilling then draining the excess via the level check, assuming one starts with 6.4l of fluid in the DSG and drains out 4.5l, adding 4.75l of new fluid (after the drain) will yield 71.4 % new fluid in the DSG. It seems that the "official" VW procedure must call for 6 l to be added as the DSG fluid change kits include 6 l of fluid. If 6l are added, the % of new fluid in the DSG would be about 76%.

I doubt there will be any negative impact on the DSG by filling with an amount closer to what drains out.:D The difference amounts to only 300 ml more of new fluid remaining in the DSG after adding 6l vs. 4.75l.
 

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I doubt a few 100 ml + or - from nominal fill capacity will affect the DSG. It's certainly possible that one could lose count of how many liters of fluid have been added and over / under fill by a liter. The level check at temperature validates that that the proper amount of fluid has been added. If one can keep track of the amount drained and added, one likely can skip the level check.:eek

With respect to changing more of the old fluid by overfilling then draining the excess via the level check, assuming one starts with 6.4l of fluid in the DSG and drains out 4.5l, adding 4.75l of new fluid (after the drain) will yield 71.4 % new fluid in the DSG. It seems that the "official" VW procedure must call for 6 l to be added as the DSG fluid change kits include 6 l of fluid. If 6l are added, the % of new fluid in the DSG would be about 76%.

I doubt there will be any negative impact on the DSG by filling with an amount closer to what drains out.:D The difference amounts to only 300 ml more of new fluid remaining in the DSG after adding 6l vs. 4.75l.

Thanks for the quick answer. I intend to buy 5 litres, provided I get 4.5 litres or so out and use each container then I should be OK. If something goes wrong there I can always revert back to the preferred method , either get a temp gauge, get VAGcom or take it to the dealer who will do it for £160 which is not to bad but will be about £90 over the cost of the parts. I just like to see it done and know it is done as many do.

Thanks again. ;)


Edit..

Having done a bit more research I have seen a rather useful video on Youtube that suggests doing the top fill is likely to be more accurate than relying on the self leveling method from underneath because if you do it right you replace exactly what comes out which I envisaged would be the case (priovided you get it right of course)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwfqsLBOnf0
 

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Did the full job today. Did not remove the air box at all, just the battery and shelf. When I loosened the filter cover, there was a seepage of about 20-30ml. I drained out almost 4.7 litres in total and replaced with the same amount plus a few ml extra to cover the seepage(negligible amount really).
I even checked the VW containers matched the amount I removed in the same measuring jug.
The fluid was not really dirty but a little browner than the new. The filter had a seal in the box in my case so have a spare now. The gasket seemed reusable but I still fitted a new one.

The snorkel had me wondering if it was going to screw all the way in until lost but it does stop hand tight.

Luckily I had bought a funnel whilst in Walmart (thinking ahead) which was perfect for the job, took about 20 mins to refill from the top. There are many useful things in the US and cheap that you just cannot find in the UK.:annoyed

Car running fine, no better which is a good sign. Well pleased.

 

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thanks, I will add this pic to the writeup! I also converted all the non-essential pics to thumbnails.

You guys have walmart too right? Your wording makes it sound like you mail ordered it.

BTW, that video is for this site and I made it. See the logo at the beginning? ;) and how it's on the writeup here?
 

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thanks, I will add this pic to the writeup! I also converted all the non-essential pics to thumbnails.

You guys have walmart too right? Your wording makes it sound like you mail ordered it.

BTW, that video is for this site and I made it. See the logo at the beginning? ;) and how it's on the writeup here?

I noticed the video had visit Myturbodiesel on it but as I found it on youtube I just linked it to my post. It was very helpful.

Regarding Walmart, we do not have it as such. We have Asda owned by Walmart, more like your Smiths or Albertsons but they do have the odd supercentre. Still not like a good Walmart though. I visit US from time to time and that is where I bought the funnel. Like to pop into Pepboys too.

I have just seen the full write up. Really good and you added my pic.:D
 

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this may be obvious once you perform the DSG oil replacement procedure but since I am not there yet... I have to ask, if there is any way to extract the tranny oil topside using a Pela extractor?
 

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this may be obvious once you perform the DSG oil replacement procedure but since I am not there yet... I have to ask, if there is any way to extract the tranny oil topside using a Pela extractor?
No.

Looking at the DSG Study Guide, the tube at the bottom of the filter canister (see pic above where hose from funnel is inserted into hole) is attached to a pipe that sprays fluid to cool the gear wheels. There appears to be no way to get a tube from the filter canister to the sump.
 

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Some other notes, the fluid temperature was around 80*F when I started the drain and fill process as the air temp was in the mid 70s, I ran the car up on ramps to remove the belly pan and then backed it off. So, I don't know how fluid temp might affect what drains out. Also, with the wheels on the garage floor, I was easily able to reach underneath the car to remove the drain plug and snorkel and put the catch pan underneath. There was no need to raise the car up to change the fluid using the top fill method. I don't know whether using the tool "requires" raising the car up (possible clearance issues?).
After reading the procedure via the "top-fill" method that is basically the only question I have: when you guys drained out 4.5 liters as per the write-up was the tranny hot or cold? I know Plus 3 Golfer states 4.5 liters when his fluid temp was 80*F, right? What about if the tranny is cold? The write-up doesn't state that.

Thanks.
 

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The DSG fluid change procedure (factory fill method) says to start the car change through all gears, let the fluid warm up to 36C (97F) but never more then 50C (122F) and let the excess fluid drain through the snorkel WHILE CAR IS RUNNING, right? So, what should I do when the ambient temperature is already 43C (110F)? When I fill the fluid it will be at ambient temperature already, when I start the car go through gears and wait for the excess fluid to drain it may already be warmed up over 50C and too much fluid will be drained, I assume. Do you guys think I should start the engine and go through gears while the drain plug (or factory fill tool) in the oil pan is installed, let the engine idle for about a minute, THEN SHUT THE ENGINE OFF and wait hours for the fluid to cool down to ambient temperature (maybe 100F late evening) and then open the drain plug to spill excess fluid?
Waiting till October is not acceptable option for me.
 

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If you do your suggestion#1 as described, it won't drain to snorkel level at right temp since it'll be too warm.

If you do suggestion #2, remember engine has to be running when you spill excess fluid.

IMHO, if already at 43C and you want to do factory fill method, let it cool down first. It will warm up very quickly and you will overshoot the target temperature. A little high is better than a little low.

Or do this in the early morning before the car is warmed up?
 
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