I had an unusual experience with the transmission of my 2010 Jetta TDI with 3000+ miles, on a 95° (F) day. I pulled out of a parking lot and drove about 300 feet, long enough for the transmission to have shifted into second, and came to a full stop at an intersection. When an opportunity to pull into traffic appeared I pushed the throttle down but apparently the transmission had not downshifted into first gear as the engine RPM's went up but the car moved very slowly for about 10 seconds. The Diesel engine did not lug though. I took my foot off the throttle and then pressed down again and response was normal, accelerating in first gear. It reminded me very much of starting off with a GM circa 1950 torque converter Buick or Chevy or a Chrysler 'fluid drive' in third gear. I wondered if the temperature had something to do with it? Ronny
DSG abnormality.
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Don't know.
Many people have reported a hesitation from a stop. It can appear under the conditions which you mentioned - you see and opening in traffic and the car hesitates. I've heard 2-3 seconds but 10 seconds is pretty darn long. Report it to your dealer so that it's on their records.
Supposedly, if you pause a second to let the DSG engage before pressing on the throttle or make the first 1" of pedal travel gentle before pressing harder, it shouldn't be as likely to hesitate. The reason you don't move forward is probably the clutches not engaging.
The reason why it's most likely to appear when you pull into traffic is because that's when people are stepping on the brakes and quickly step on the "gas" pedal.
Many people have reported a hesitation from a stop. It can appear under the conditions which you mentioned - you see and opening in traffic and the car hesitates. I've heard 2-3 seconds but 10 seconds is pretty darn long. Report it to your dealer so that it's on their records.
Supposedly, if you pause a second to let the DSG engage before pressing on the throttle or make the first 1" of pedal travel gentle before pressing harder, it shouldn't be as likely to hesitate. The reason you don't move forward is probably the clutches not engaging.
The reason why it's most likely to appear when you pull into traffic is because that's when people are stepping on the brakes and quickly step on the "gas" pedal.
DSG more.
Thank you, I will inform my dealer. It may be that I don't remember the time accurately. In that kind of situation time seems to slow down. I pulled out into highway traffic once in a new Mercury and the engine stalled. It seemed like an hour before I got it started again. Ronny
Thank you, I will inform my dealer. It may be that I don't remember the time accurately. In that kind of situation time seems to slow down. I pulled out into highway traffic once in a new Mercury and the engine stalled. It seemed like an hour before I got it started again. Ronny
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I agree with chitty's comments as that's what I've found to do.
I have to frequently make a left turn on a slight uphill to get to the freeway and the street, although only a 2 lane residential street, is very crowded so you have to jump on small breaks in traffic. What I have noticed is just let off the brake and at least let it idle slowly forward or slightly push the accelerator in. This seems to engage first gear as chitty mentioned and then you can roar off the line.
I have to frequently make a left turn on a slight uphill to get to the freeway and the street, although only a 2 lane residential street, is very crowded so you have to jump on small breaks in traffic. What I have noticed is just let off the brake and at least let it idle slowly forward or slightly push the accelerator in. This seems to engage first gear as chitty mentioned and then you can roar off the line.
DSG more.
Thank you. I don't mind so much but it could be dangerous when trying to pull out into high speed traffic, not the time to have to wonder if it's going to go or not. I e-mailed my 'service advisor' at the dealer's where I bought the car but so far have not received a reply. I called the NTSB and they have no record of an investigation into VW DSG problems. To be continued. Ronny
Thank you. I don't mind so much but it could be dangerous when trying to pull out into high speed traffic, not the time to have to wonder if it's going to go or not. I e-mailed my 'service advisor' at the dealer's where I bought the car but so far have not received a reply. I called the NTSB and they have no record of an investigation into VW DSG problems. To be continued. Ronny
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ditto.
To negate this hesitation, I suggest you use "S" or, for more fun, use the handy steering wheel mounted paddles around town. Leaving "D" for open autobahn use.
FYI:
If you didn't already know..., when in "D" ....the paddle shifters still work.
For instance.....you're just cruising in "D" with partial throttle (the trans is in its highest gear, excellent mpg) and you decide to make a passing move. Squeeze the "-" paddle, (the trans shifts down) then poke the throttle pedal, and whoosh
Squeeze the "+" paddle at desired shift rpm OR the DSG will shift up for you if you go to partial throttle, ......And you're still in "D"
I hope these tips help.
I love my DSG transmission.
DSG abnormality
Thank you for all the tips. I too like the transmission very much and the knowledge that it malfunctioned troubles me! I'm also thinking of my wife driving the car. she is not willingly mechanically inclined and if the gearbox malfunctions while she is driving it could lead to an accident plus trading the TDI in for a Honda.
I spoke to the SA at the dealer and he seemed mystified but promised to talk to the shop foreman about it, check service bulletins etc. and e-mail me. He also said that all outstanding DSG issues had been resolved and that my car's gearbox had the latest software.
Nothing about a mechanical gremlin though. When this event occurred the car had been at a full stop for several seconds on level ground. When I pushed down on the throttle it moved ahead very slowly, as I said, as though it were still in second or even third gear, across one and a half lanes of traffic before I took my foot off the throttle and pushed down again when it re-acted normally and took off. I can't wait to hear what the SA has to say. Ronny.
Thank you for all the tips. I too like the transmission very much and the knowledge that it malfunctioned troubles me! I'm also thinking of my wife driving the car. she is not willingly mechanically inclined and if the gearbox malfunctions while she is driving it could lead to an accident plus trading the TDI in for a Honda.
I spoke to the SA at the dealer and he seemed mystified but promised to talk to the shop foreman about it, check service bulletins etc. and e-mail me. He also said that all outstanding DSG issues had been resolved and that my car's gearbox had the latest software.
Nothing about a mechanical gremlin though. When this event occurred the car had been at a full stop for several seconds on level ground. When I pushed down on the throttle it moved ahead very slowly, as I said, as though it were still in second or even third gear, across one and a half lanes of traffic before I took my foot off the throttle and pushed down again when it re-acted normally and took off. I can't wait to hear what the SA has to say. Ronny.
DSG abnormality
Well my dealers service advisor e-mailed me and said that they ran my car's VIN number through VW and there are no current Technical Service Bulletins issued for the DSG gearbox not downshifting upon coming to a full stop in Drive mode.
I realize that this problem may have been due to the 95° temperature or it may have been a mechanical gremlin that will never show it's forked tail again—or it may—at the worst possible moment. For that reason I called the NHTSA Office of Defect Investigation and filed a complaint. I was told that there are ten other current complaints involving VW Jetta TDI DSG's and that two of the ten were similar to mine (figures) and that their engineers review complaints and decide if further action is justified. Certainly three complaints unrelated to accidents do not call for further action but at least I have established a record. Ronny
Well my dealers service advisor e-mailed me and said that they ran my car's VIN number through VW and there are no current Technical Service Bulletins issued for the DSG gearbox not downshifting upon coming to a full stop in Drive mode.
I realize that this problem may have been due to the 95° temperature or it may have been a mechanical gremlin that will never show it's forked tail again—or it may—at the worst possible moment. For that reason I called the NHTSA Office of Defect Investigation and filed a complaint. I was told that there are ten other current complaints involving VW Jetta TDI DSG's and that two of the ten were similar to mine (figures) and that their engineers review complaints and decide if further action is justified. Certainly three complaints unrelated to accidents do not call for further action but at least I have established a record. Ronny
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DSG Hesitation
Same problem! No pattern of hot or cold detected, usually occurs on a small incline. Scary loss of throttle response in mid-intersection. Various forums and C&D review blame brake interlock switch, fuel filter, turbo lag and DSG software. There is a NTHSB investigation pending (PE09035) which all affected should respond to, as VW is not acknowledging a widespread defect. This is my daughter's car and I will get rid of it if not repaired!
Same problem! No pattern of hot or cold detected, usually occurs on a small incline. Scary loss of throttle response in mid-intersection. Various forums and C&D review blame brake interlock switch, fuel filter, turbo lag and DSG software. There is a NTHSB investigation pending (PE09035) which all affected should respond to, as VW is not acknowledging a widespread defect. This is my daughter's car and I will get rid of it if not repaired!
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The more you drive the more it will adapt to your driving habitts. I also had similiar experience at first miles but now at 12000miles it is smoothh no matter how i accelerate. When idle and press the acceler the RPM dont go more than 2500!!!! Dont loose faith in your car. Good luck
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I used to think that too but it's been proven by tuners who have looked at the transmission programming that it's not a learning transmission. It just doesn't have the capability. It can change shift maps in response to driving style and it will learn and adapt to transmission wear but it can't adjust the shift maps in response to driving habits. Changing shift maps is not the same as learning driving style. Just wanted to make sure it's clear for the readers.
I too received a "confirmation and phone call reference number" from the NTSB in October of last year when I was told that I would receive a report form in the mail but no sign of it so far. I speculate that my problem, which has not happened since the original event, was probably caused by a combination of high temperature, new, tight, parts equals sticky solenoid or something like that. But whatever the cause, I hope it does not recur! Ronny
No word from the folks at NHTSA-ODI since my call in July when the downshifting issue appeared nor has the problem occurred again. I decided to fill out their on-line form because I do want to establish a record as I said in an earlier post. The on-line form did get their attention because I received an e-mail from the dealer saying that they had received a letter from the NHTSA which they did not share with me, but they offered to have a VWofA service tech meet me at the dealership to "go over the car with me". I declined to make the hundred mile round trip because: the failure did not occur again and seven months and seven thousand miles have gone by since it did. The conditions of that day last July can not be duplicated—95°F hot macadam, only three thousand miles on the car so parts were still wearing in, might have caused a solenoid in the Mechatronics module to stick. Just speculation I know but surely something like that must have caused the problem.
I noticed something interesting. I haven't had any real problems with my DSG since I got my 2010 JSW in October. I upgraded to a steering wheel with paddles and really that's where a tiptronic DSG shines is having fun there. Anyways as part of the install I disconnected the battery since I was working with the airbag system. After I was done, the DSG feels 100 times better. It's totally smooth now. It's a pretty amazing difference. I've really enjoyed the difference. This is how it is supposed to be. It doesn't jerk or upshift or downshift hard. It has zero hesitation. It's really great.
Hi All. I took 2011 Jetta and Golf TDI automatics for test drives (Owasco dealership in Whitby, Ont)
recently - and both exhibited the same total lack of power (off the start, for about 5 seconds).
The behavior was most pronounced pulling out of the dealership and making left turns at
intersections. Now, this was my first time driving diesels, so I'm wondering if there's something I'm
doing wrong. I really want to like the Golf - absolutely loved the styling, handling, interior, etc. etc.
I'm a long-time Accord driver - tried the 2011 model, but the uncomfortable seats are a deal
breaker - and after taking the Golf for a spin, I don't see how I could go back to another honda.
Problem is, a car that is consistently void of power, for seconds at a time from a standstill, is also
a deal breaker for me. So, I'm looking for some wisdom/advice from VW TDI owners ... was it just
bad luck that I test drove two lemons .. or is this something that you've experienced that either
fixed itself, or went away due to changing driving habits ?!
Thanks for any help.
recently - and both exhibited the same total lack of power (off the start, for about 5 seconds).
The behavior was most pronounced pulling out of the dealership and making left turns at
intersections. Now, this was my first time driving diesels, so I'm wondering if there's something I'm
doing wrong. I really want to like the Golf - absolutely loved the styling, handling, interior, etc. etc.
I'm a long-time Accord driver - tried the 2011 model, but the uncomfortable seats are a deal
breaker - and after taking the Golf for a spin, I don't see how I could go back to another honda.
Problem is, a car that is consistently void of power, for seconds at a time from a standstill, is also
a deal breaker for me. So, I'm looking for some wisdom/advice from VW TDI owners ... was it just
bad luck that I test drove two lemons .. or is this something that you've experienced that either
fixed itself, or went away due to changing driving habits ?!
Thanks for any help.
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87 Posts
gck, you have to understand that the DSG is an "automated" manual transmission. With your foot on the brake, the clutch inside the transmission is not engaged. When you let off the brake, the clutch engages. It seems that the clutch does not engage quickly enough or slips as one trys to accelerate simultaneously with the release of the brake. It seems like 5 seconds when you're turning across traffic but my experience is maybe a 1/2 -1 second hesitation / lack of quick acceleration. If it truly was 5 seconds than something is wrong.
What I do to mitigate this "hesitation" is to anticipate my left hand turn and starts by releasing the brake just prior to when I want to "take off". This is really no different than most people would do if they were driving a manual, that is, anticipate when you want to move and start to engage the clutch before you actually want to turn left or start moving. You can feel the DSG clutch engage and the car will start to creep forward when you remove your foot from the brake. Once the clutch is engaged, I have no problems accelerating briskly. Now having said the above, I did experience the following.
For the first 28k miles my DSG shifted smoothly with no bumps, jerks, or hesitation as many have described. Then, out of the blue I noticed an abrupt change in the behavior of my DSG. I decided to drive it for 2 weeks to see if the abrupt behavior would revert back to normal or stay the same. The DSG is suppose to adapt the clutches and pressures while driving. Well the behavior didn't change. So, I did a DSG Adaptation with VCDS. After the adaptation, the change in the behavior was immediately noticed when backing out the driveway and accelerating. After the test drive per the procedures, the DSG is once again operating like it did for the first 28k miles. I'm now at 42k miles.
During this 2 week period, I had harsh/abrupt clutch engagement upon releasing the brake when stopped and harsh 1-2 upshifts when accelerating from a stop. I also had considerable hesitation /delay when accelerating after coasting in a lower gear 2-4 before the car would begin to accelerate (for example, coasting up to a traffic light where the car has downshifted to say 3rd or 4th and the light changes and one then accelerates). If I gave more throttle the DSG would simply downshift but the hesitation was still there. This was especially annoying when turning across 3 lanes of traffic with the DSG in say 2nd - 3rd gear. Also, when comming to a stop, the 2-1 downshift was extremely harsh if breaking hard during the last 5 mph or so before stopping.
So bottom line, if anyone has these issues try the DSG Adaptation to caibrate and adapt the pressures and clutches. When activating the Basic Settings in VCDS for Groups 60 and 61, the DSG was banging which I assume was shifting and engaging the clutches. That's probably the reason for keeping your foot on the brake during the procedure.
What I do to mitigate this "hesitation" is to anticipate my left hand turn and starts by releasing the brake just prior to when I want to "take off". This is really no different than most people would do if they were driving a manual, that is, anticipate when you want to move and start to engage the clutch before you actually want to turn left or start moving. You can feel the DSG clutch engage and the car will start to creep forward when you remove your foot from the brake. Once the clutch is engaged, I have no problems accelerating briskly. Now having said the above, I did experience the following.
For the first 28k miles my DSG shifted smoothly with no bumps, jerks, or hesitation as many have described. Then, out of the blue I noticed an abrupt change in the behavior of my DSG. I decided to drive it for 2 weeks to see if the abrupt behavior would revert back to normal or stay the same. The DSG is suppose to adapt the clutches and pressures while driving. Well the behavior didn't change. So, I did a DSG Adaptation with VCDS. After the adaptation, the change in the behavior was immediately noticed when backing out the driveway and accelerating. After the test drive per the procedures, the DSG is once again operating like it did for the first 28k miles. I'm now at 42k miles.
During this 2 week period, I had harsh/abrupt clutch engagement upon releasing the brake when stopped and harsh 1-2 upshifts when accelerating from a stop. I also had considerable hesitation /delay when accelerating after coasting in a lower gear 2-4 before the car would begin to accelerate (for example, coasting up to a traffic light where the car has downshifted to say 3rd or 4th and the light changes and one then accelerates). If I gave more throttle the DSG would simply downshift but the hesitation was still there. This was especially annoying when turning across 3 lanes of traffic with the DSG in say 2nd - 3rd gear. Also, when comming to a stop, the 2-1 downshift was extremely harsh if breaking hard during the last 5 mph or so before stopping.
So bottom line, if anyone has these issues try the DSG Adaptation to caibrate and adapt the pressures and clutches. When activating the Basic Settings in VCDS for Groups 60 and 61, the DSG was banging which I assume was shifting and engaging the clutches. That's probably the reason for keeping your foot on the brake during the procedure.
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23,902 Posts
2nd, at worst I've felt a half second of hesitation but this is only in test drives trying to force hesitation. 5 seconds is long enough to be a deal breaker for me and I have not been able to make it do this.
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Yes, I'd say normal delay is well under 1/2 second - more like 100-200 milliseconds. Most of the time the engagement is smooth and is not felt.
When I had the issue, the delays / hesitation after releasing the brake was more like one second no matter what I tried (which is nerve racking when pulling across traffic). The clutch simply seemed to take that long to engage fully and sometimes you could feel it slipping slightly when starting to accelerate as speed lagged engine rpms. Then most times it would bang into 1st gear and then usually 2nd also. It's like the DSG mechatronics unit was confused as to clutch position and/or the control pressures.
When I had the issue, the delays / hesitation after releasing the brake was more like one second no matter what I tried (which is nerve racking when pulling across traffic). The clutch simply seemed to take that long to engage fully and sometimes you could feel it slipping slightly when starting to accelerate as speed lagged engine rpms. Then most times it would bang into 1st gear and then usually 2nd also. It's like the DSG mechatronics unit was confused as to clutch position and/or the control pressures.
The hesitation was definitely around 5+ seconds. My wife was with me, and at one point asked
something like "what are you waiting for ?". Also, at low speed (around 0-40kph) acceleration felt
quite mushy and unresponsive ... anything over this speed felt great.
So in a nutshell, 0-40kph - "what the heck is going on" ... over 40kph or so - "wow".
I doubt both cars would have the same impediment, so although I naturally let up on the brake
and coast a bit before accelerating from a standstill (as suggested above), I expect the fault
is likely with me - so I'll be going in for another test drive. I'm hoping I'll note the same problem, which
should confirm that the problem is with me.
something like "what are you waiting for ?". Also, at low speed (around 0-40kph) acceleration felt
quite mushy and unresponsive ... anything over this speed felt great.
So in a nutshell, 0-40kph - "what the heck is going on" ... over 40kph or so - "wow".
I doubt both cars would have the same impediment, so although I naturally let up on the brake
and coast a bit before accelerating from a standstill (as suggested above), I expect the fault
is likely with me - so I'll be going in for another test drive. I'm hoping I'll note the same problem, which
should confirm that the problem is with me.
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