[stevekarns]

I am posting on here to access the timing belt part two section.

I have a 01 ALH that drove fine to work. I work my short shift at work, 3 hours later I tried to start car and it won't start. I attempted to start several times. After lining up a friend with truck and trailer and getting the car home I started to access the situation. The battery is good, Optima, and turns the engine over fine. With the TB top cover off and valve cover off I can verify that nothing on the top side of the engine is rotating. I purchased the car 6K miles ago and do not have the exact timing of when the TB was last changed. I planned on doing it at the 150K mark, 10K from now, but now kick myself for not doing it sooner. I was planning on doing the TB myself and so far all the research I've done, I'm capable. I live in the Fredericksburg VA area and without getting into a big sob story about how things are just falling apart in my life right now, will say that I'll accept any tips and pointers from anyone. If someone is local and they have a free day that is willing to help out with the TB change I will accept. If you have the tools to loan/rent to me even better. I plan on purchasing them and doing a couple of the belts for me and a buddy. Thanks for any tips or advice you may have.

Steve

 

[Fluid]

Sorry friend, but you need more than a TB change. You need a rebuilt cylinder head: http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/a4/cylinder-head-removal-ALH-TDI-engine.htm If nothing on the top side is moving, it means you had valve-piston contact. Send a PM to Franko6 for head rebuild pricing, he is the go-to guy for this.

 

[YMZ]

Sorry friend, but you need more than a TB change. You need a rebuilt cylinder head: http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/a4/cylinder-head-removal-ALH-TDI-engine.htm If nothing on the top side is moving, it means you had valve-piston contact. Send a PM to Franko6 for head rebuild pricing, he is the go-to guy for this.

Nothing to add...

These are interference engines, and if the crankshaft was rotating (with the starter) and the camshaft and pump were not, the cylinder head has to come off... Frank Irving in Lockwood MO ("franko6") has earned a stellar reputation when it comes to helping recover from mishaps like this. You won't find better.

Good luck!!

Yuri

 

[stevekarns]

Head

I'm figuring the head had to come off. I never heard a loud bang or clank. This all happend to me on Saturday and then on Sunday I had to leave VA for a work trip to OR. So I'm sitting around just fretting the amount of work that I have to do. I'm gonna order the timeing tools and TB kit, so that I can at least get started once I return to VA on the 20th. Do you all recommend or tell anyone to stay away from certain venders? I'll be getting tools and parts. Since a good buddy of mine has the same car we talked about getting the tools and helping each other out. Now I'm really ready to do it and need to gather everything up.

Thanks again for everyone helping out with the advice.

 

[YMZ]

Frank Irving can supply you with all the parts you'll need... You should really remove the head in order to inspect the condition of the pistons - measuring the protrusion of each to see that you haven't bent a connecting rod (unlikely, but should be checked anyway) should really be done before sending out the head, as there's a small chance you'll need to replace a couple of rods, but...

Good luck,

Yuri

 

[chittychittybangbang]

I'm figuring the head had to come off. I never heard a loud bang or clank. This all happend to me on Saturday and then on Sunday I had to leave VA for a work trip to OR. So I'm sitting around just fretting the amount of work that I have to do. I'm gonna order the timeing tools and TB kit, so that I can at least get started once I return to VA on the 20th. Do you all recommend or tell anyone to stay away from certain venders? I'll be getting tools and parts. Since a good buddy of mine has the same car we talked about getting the tools and helping each other out. Now I'm really ready to do it and need to gather everything up.

Thanks again for everyone helping out with the advice.

I rent the timing belt tools upon request. Here is a direct link to frank's profile where you can send him an email. http://www.myturbodiesel.com/forum/members/franko6/

 

[ZoomALH]

I'm figuring the head had to come off. I never heard a loud bang or clank. This all happend to me on Saturday and then on Sunday I had to leave VA for a work trip to OR. So I'm sitting around just fretting the amount of work that I have to do. I'm gonna order the timeing tools and TB kit, so that I can at least get started once I return to VA on the 20th. Do you all recommend or tell anyone to stay away from certain venders? I'll be getting tools and parts. Since a good buddy of mine has the same car we talked about getting the tools and helping each other out. Now I'm really ready to do it and need to gather everything up.

Thanks again for everyone helping out with the advice.

This is just a guess, but if you heard a loud bang I would think there would be a lot more damage than a bent valve. I had a TB break on me long ago and it was just a click.

Stay away from prothe-emiata.

 

[YMZ]

Pardon the idiotically simplistic nature of this, but...

Re-reading your initial post: are you certain that the engine (or, rather, the crankshaft) was turning over when you were trying to start??? If your starter solenoid gave out and the starter never engaged the flywheel ring gear, you could hear the starter spinning around, but the engine wouldn't budge...

Have you tried turning the crankshaft manually - using a 12-point 19mm socket on the bolt head sticking out of the harmonic balancer?? (Clockwise, of course...)

Just a thought...

Yuri

 

[stevekarns]

time

Pardon the idiotically simplistic nature of this, but...

Re-reading your initial post: are you certain that the engine (or, rather, the crankshaft) was turning over when you were trying to start??? If your starter solenoid gave out and the starter never engaged the flywheel ring gear, you could hear the starter spinning around, but the engine wouldn't budge...

Have you tried turning the crankshaft manually - using a 12-point 19mm socket on the bolt head sticking out of the harmonic balancer?? (Clockwise, of course...)

Just a thought...

Yuri

Yuri,
Thanks for the concern and willingness to help.

I'll try to give the whole story for yall to assist.

I tried to start the car in the work parking lot, the engine sounded to turn over, but about every 4 rotations there was a cough like sound. Once I got it home late that evening, I began to investigate. I pulled the glow plugs out and attempted a pressure test, my thinking was maybe a head gasket at this time. I was only getting compression on cylinders 2 and 4. I then pulled the timing belt cover and noticed that it appeared to be moving, it didn't sit exactly still when the engine was rolled over via the starter. So I pulled the cam shaft cover off and then was able to see that the cam was not rolling over at all. The is where i figured i was in big trouble. By this time in the eveing the wife was mad I was in the garage and I had to pack for Oregon. Now I'm trying to troubleshoot a problem on a car that is 3000 miles away. Talking with everyone on TDICLUB and what I've seen it seems to be the stripped belt at the crank. I'm just hoping that it hasn't affected the valves to much.

 

[JFettig]

well, it sounds a lot like the one I have in my garage right now that I'm working on.
Pull off the passenger side wheel, fender liner and side splash shield, remove the serp belt and harmonic balancer and you'll likely see this:

This is what the belt looks like on mine

Its a big and expensive project, even if you do it yourself.

I hope to have the head off of mine by this weekend.

Jon

 

[stevekarns]

Location

I'm currently in Oregon on a work trip. I've just placed the parts on order from Blau and orders the tools directly from MetalNerd. I order the 12 point bit for the head bolts since I figure I'm headed that route with this mess I'm in.

I plan on pulling the Cam out and then using shop air to test the valves and pistons for correct seal, and visually looking at the lifters for signs of the valve impacting the top side as seen in the how to section. Do you all think if shop air rotates the engine over and the lifters all look fine that I'm one lucky guy and don't have to pull the head?

No matter what I'm pulling the timing belt off and doing that job, just sitting 3000 miles away from the car I'm trying to run through different scenerios to think the "what if's" through.

Thanks again for all the pictures and help. I'm really thankful for the TDI community and how helpful we all are to each other!!!

 

[chittychittybangbang]

If you have confirmed that the cam and crank are no longer in time, it's a sure hit. The engine is moving too fast to have not hit the valves. The valves go straight up-down which could cause the stems to mushroom and fail later. I would at least disassemble the head for inspection

 

[YMZ]

Extremely unlikely... what we've seen happen is that even if things "look" fine, there's a good chance that if you just replace the lifters and timing belt system, one of the valve heads will come off some time in the next 10,000 miles, and then you'll be needing at least a piston... (a rod or two and possibly a new block, as well as a non-recoverable cylinder head are also likely...)

There's always a chance, but... do you feel lucky???

Yuri

 

[stevekarns]

Valves

So I'm taking it that I NEED to take the head off and change all the valves?
I rolled the engine over several times with the starter, two of the cylinders compressed air- verified by removing the glow plugs and plugging the hole with my finger. If cylinder 1 is towards the timing belt, cylinders 2 and 4 compressed but 1 and 3 did not. I'm thinking that the cam has the valves open in those cylinders. My intentions are to remove the timing belt and cam, then check the valves with shop air into the combustion chamber to check the valves for a seal. Are you suggesting that there is damage if everything seals and I'm going to have a broken valve in the future? This all happened at start up, the engine never tried to start. I want to make sure that everything is good and I am good for the next 100k mi. I don't want to skip an important step and be doing this again in 25k mi, or worse yet be replacing an engine. I guess if I've got the Timeing belt off, whats 8 head bolts. I've done a good bit of research on the Timing belt maintenance, but taking the Head off, how hard is that? Seems straight forward to me, 8 bolts(in order), hoses, lines and a few other attaching parts. I think I need to clean the intake so, I'll just make it a topside rebuild I guess.

Can't get my hands dirty until Friday maybe, so I'm gonna research and research all this work I'm about to do. If you've done it please throw me a bone and give me some tips. I've done a couple gas engines piece by piece, but never dealt with diesel's. Any tips are helpful. Thanks again for all the support. I'll try to take pics and post what I find.

 

[chittychittybangbang]

If the valve went into the head at an angle that would be easier but the valves go straight up-down so it's possible that the stems have mushroomed and might still hold air. The best thing to do is to remove all the valves for inspection. It's not possible to tell if you have to change all the valves but based on your description, it's very likely that at least 1 valve will need replacement.

Taking the head off: http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/a4/cylinder-head-removal-ALH-TDI-engine.htm here is a DIY. Make sure to get the right head gasket. If you want to document the head inspection or refresh with step by step pictures, it would qualify for the writeup contest and help many others. There is currently no writeup for this and the more pics the better!

 

[stevekarns]

If the valve went into the head at an angle that would be easier but the valves go straight up-down so it's possible that the stems have mushroomed and might still hold air. The best thing to do is to remove all the valves for inspection. It's not possible to tell if you have to change all the valves but based on your description, it's very likely that at least 1 valve will need replacement.

Taking the head off: http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/a4/cylinder-head-removal-ALH-TDI-engine.htm here is a DIY. Make sure to get the right head gasket. If you want to document the head inspection or refresh with step by step pictures, it would qualify for the writeup contest and help many others. There is currently no writeup for this and the more pics the better!

Thanks for letting me know about needing the writeup. I'd love to be able to help out others as much as everyone has helped me.

 

[stevekarns]

Thank you

Well you all that thought the timing belt was striped at the crank were right. I finally made it home and was able to get thing broke down tonight. I've got the head off and had 2 valves hit the piston. One intake and One exhaust. The lifters were easy to spot. As for any marks on the valves or on the piston there wasn't any sign of damage. Now I just need to find a valve removal tool and replace some valves, then I can start the reassembly process. Thanks again for all the great help and DIY information. If you all know of a good valve tool that you can recommend please let me know.

 

[JFettig]

looks all too familiar, luckily you didn't turn it over again! You would have had even more of a mess because it looks like teeth are engaging with the pulley down there.

I don't know this for fact, but you will probably want to have the head rebuilt by Franko6. You'll be replacing valves, guides, cutting and lapping valve seats, and who knows what else.


Jon