[markd89]

Help!

History: 97 Passat 1Z was running pretty well. Occasionally, the pump would lose it's prime and require some cranking to start, but it basically ran well.

I checked the IP timing using VCDS before we did the timing belt and it showed that it was within spec but retarded. I was hoping to pick up a little power once the car was retimed after the TB.

I had my local mechanic (and buddy) do the timing belt. This was using the correct metalnerd tools and the procedure from myturbodiesel.com

At the same time as the TB, a new IP bracket was swapped in which required removal of the pump.

Overnight, after the TB work, the IP lost it's prime and needed the Mity Vac to pull fuel. Once started it ran "OK" but smokey. I drove it around to warm it up, but it was noticeably gutless and I don't think the turbo kicked in. No CELs though.

Once warm, we checked timing using VCDS, it would either be too far advanced to be displayed or bounce between retarded and off the charts advanced. Note that we moved the pump with the car running without loosening any of the fuel lines. The car smokes now and did not before.

With the adaptation turned off (000) the car would run very rough.

I took a video of the VCDS which is here: http://realityisreality.com/tdi/VIDEO0001.3gp (I think you need Quicktime to play this).

In looking at the video it looks like I did not have the right engine selected in VCDS when I made the video, but I'm pretty sure I did when we were adjusting prior to shooting the video.

This was a car that ran well prior to the TB, so I'm thinking that we missed something in doing the timing procedure.

Is it correct to have the engine running while moving the pump?

The battery was disconnected during the TB procedure. Could this have lost some programming that's needed?
Should I check other settings?

I'd appreciate any pointers. I'm going out there again tomorrow, but don't have internet there, so hoping to fill up on troubleshooting procedures now.

Thanks!
Mark

P.S. Seatman from TDIClub suggested I read the ALH procedure here: http://www.myturbodiesel.com/forum/f21/how-install-new-timing-belt-jetta-new-beetle-golf-alh-engine-1998-2003-a-2976/ Now that I've posted my first post, I'll have access to read that.

 

[grizzly]

The engine can be running while moving the pump. Timing can bounce wildly between too far and too low if you move it too much. Try selecting the right engine and try again. Also, look for fuel leaks. It shouldn't lose prime overnight. If it gets too far gone, just put the engine back at TDC and see if you can tell how far the pump is gone. The ALH procedure is different and you can't have the pump adjustment done with the engine running.

 

[Seatman]

Yeh for the vcds part, I think it has more info on how to use the software even though the actual adjustment is different, if the timing is far out though I would loosen the injector pipes first, turn the pump a little then do the finer adjustments with the car running.

welcometomyturbodies

 

[Keithuk]

Welcome to the forum. welcometomyturbodies

That video will play perfectly with VLC Media Player no need for QuickTime sugar.

 

[markd89]

Thanks for the help guys and the welcome. It's great to have the support although today was a frustrating day. Today, there's a different issue: can't get it to start at all!

I tried pushing the top of the pump all the way towards the back of the car to advance it, but it wouldn't start. We tried retarding it a little at a time from the maximum retarded position and still no start but were getting smoke so I suppose if we just crank it over and over it will start [email protected]$%!

I read error codes with VCDS and now see:

3 Faults Found:
00765 - Modulating Piston Movement Sensor (G149)
35-00 - -
00539 - Fuel Temperature Sensor (G81)
30-00 - Open or Short to Plus
00527 - Intake Manifold Temperature Sensor (G72)
30-00 - Open or Short to Plus
Readiness: N/A

There were no faults before we started but these are here now. Are these causing the problem or are they just side-effects of the same underlying issue (timing)?

Tried spraying WD40 into intake and not starting. Moved pump around, still not starting.

Cracked injectors and did see fuel coming out of injector lines.

Checked Cam, Flywheel and pump locks. All OK and in perfect alignment.

Old diesel mechanic who came over says it may be flooded. His suggestion, tow the car in gear at speed to clear out the unburnt fuel. Sounds crazy, but he's an old diesel mechanic.

I don't think this is it, but throwing it out there anyway: Used to be that I'd see lots of bubbles in the clear fuel supply tube. We found that where the fuel return tube connects to the pump that the hose clamp was not tight so we replaced it with one so that it is tight now. No bubbles anymore and of course, not starting.

Last thought for the night.. wonder if the car can sense when it has been cranked for too long without starting and then would it cut fueling to avoid being flooded? We also put the car on charge as I could see that it wasn't cranking as fast as before. I wonder if the slow cranking before I noticed it could have caused flooding or some other issue?

Mark

 

[Seatman]

Check post 15 of this thread I started on the other site, I think it might be helpful to you.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=317329

 

[markd89]

Success!!!

The mistake being made was not cracking the injector lines at pump and injectors before moving the pump to set timing. The lines were preventing the pump from being advanced enough.

Per my buddy/mechanic, we were OK to lever the pump to move it without cracking the lines. That was wrong.

I levered the pump backwards to advance the timing, then when I cracked the lines, I was able to move the pump back even further.

I bled the pump inlet and outlet lines using the mity vac, then cranked with the lines at the injector cracked until fuel spilled out. When I tightened them up, the car started immediately.

Making sure I had VCDS set to the right engine, I set the timing. I went slightly advanced then a little more so it's advanced but below the green line.

When done, I cracked and tightened all four injector lines at both ends.

Thanks to all for the help. It's very satisfying to get back and running with my own hands (and a lot of help from you)

Mark

 

[chittychittybangbang]

I have added this note to the mk3 timing belt writeup. In my case I didn't have to loosen the lines but hopefully you have helped someone else! Thanks!

 

[markd89]

I have added this note to the mk3 timing belt writeup. In my case I didn't have to loosen the lines but hopefully you have helped someone else! Thanks!

Nice!

I'd speculate that if we had not replaced the IP bracket (and so had to remove the pump), the pump would not have moved much and any adjustment would have been so minor as to be possible with everything hooked up.

Thanks again,

Mark

 

[grga22]

Hi everybody...

What can happen top the engine if timing is too advanced?