[wolfscc]

Yes replaced water pump, timing belt kit included tensioner for tb. Also tb had about 90000+-. I used a VW timing belt kit. And METALNERDS tool kit. At what point, with the timing not correct, would damage occur internally?

 

[Fluid]

If the valves hit the pistons damage occured. If you're a tooth off it shouldn't be enough to cause a problem other than no start. What happened?

 

[Seatman]

Maybe there isn't any damage from the belt, if you followed the instructions in the faq I can't see why there would be but maybe it's a different thing causing the noise like the timing being better and creating more of a diesel knock than usual or something to do with the fuel system, bad cam or something else altogether. Have you double checked the timing etc?

 

[wolfscc]

Took car for ride. CK light came on at 35 miles. scanned code came up with bad maf sensor. Replaced it with a new vw one and it did not change it. When car is running at idle it runs/sounds fine. As you rev engine it gets louder and the motor seams it is down on power. There is a lot of black smoke coming out tailpipe. It uses alot of fuel. My mechanic friend who has the scan tool said to remove oil pan and check rods. I don't know why this loud noise started after the timing belt was changed.

 

[chittychittybangbang]

Did you stuff a rag into the intake piping? If so, it could have jammed the turbo and caused damage. Did you bend and tear a fuel line? There is nothing about the timing belt that should cause this problem. No codes after you cleared the CEL right?

 

[wolfscc]

No rag. No fuel lines bent or teared. I'm at a loss for what has changed. Took air cleaner out and found valve assembly located within air cleaner housing loose and flopping aroung. Put everything back together. Why would there be a pulsing of air thru air pipe on passenger side of motor above timing belt?

 

[wolfscc]

After car was cleared of egr codes a MAF sensor code showed up and we replaced it. I'd like to get more info before I clear codes again and drive car.

 

[chittychittybangbang]

If you removed the air box it's possible it just fell off its hinge. That is the air snorkel bypass. Basically, when suction on the air snorkel is too great, that bypass door opens and lets the engine run. The air snorkel could be clogged with leaves, mouse nest, dead bugs, snow. It shouldn't mess with the MAF sensor because the MAF is still getting air, just warm engine air instead of cold outside air. It's still filtered through the air filter.

Any more details on this "Why would there be a pulsing of air thru air pipe on passenger side of motor above timing belt?"

 

[wolfscc]

I'll give you a brief synopsis on what has occurred up to this point. Car started runniong bad. Lots of black smoke, shuttered a bit down on power. Friend took car to his usuall place. They said head was bad and turbo was cracked. He needed to replace both. Or so they said. He missed an oil change and went about 9000 miles on last change. Car has 163000 miles. He has owned car since new and has replaced oil and filter ALWAYS with vw stuff. Buys oil bynthe case from dealer. I took car and drove it to get CK ENKGINE light to come on. Drove car around 70 miles to bet light on. As I drove the car it would run totallly fine on occasion. It didn't act like cam or turbo was bad. CK light came on and gave us an EGR code. There was a leak and it was coming from the dash pot on pipe below turbo. We replaced EGR valve and that pipe with dash pot. Upon examination the pipe which housed the butterfly valve showed that the shaft assembly was worn and that the area where the plugger goes into dashpot valve was leaking. EGR valve was coated with black but it did not contain an over abundance of carbon, IE chunks. It had dust. Although it was a nice coating. I changed oil and filter. Oil was jet black. The worse I've ever seen. We replaced Timing belt with VW replacement kit. It included the big and little tensioner and belt. Also replaced Alt belt. Started car and all went south. The car seems to run horrible as far as sounds go. It has a loud rattle that gets louder as RPM increase. It definately does not have the potential to just get up and go like it did before TB and other work. It sounds like the motor is Disintergrating. Now as far as the turbo It was working< I believe as it should before work started. The cam I believe was fine also due to how car ran before work started. Ck light came on and gave us a code for P0101. I replaced sensor with no change.

1. So here are my questions. If cam is worn would it run fine before work started and now because of egr and tb being chnage adversly effect this motor?

2. above scenerio hold true for a problem turbo?

3. If TB is truelly off by 1 tooth. Which direction? How could it be possible with the locating tools?

4. How could a motor that wanted to run fine. But needed such minor work. Upon completion of work and firing up for the first time, run in a totally different manner?

5. Any one live near Allentown PA can come and look at this thing?

It is a 2006 jetta tdi 1.9 brm motor with man trans. It did have the clutch replaced at 40000 miles after slave cylinder leaked and grenaded clutch and cracking trans housing.

6. A little brake clean was shot down in throttle body when passenger side hose was removed. Wanted to slean butterfly valve a little due to carbon build up. That same hose has air pulsating thru it. Motor has a dull thump thump thump sound that coincides with this pulsating. The louder sound is more of a vibrating rattle soung. like engine misfiring. My thing is I believe the timing is not right. We checked it 3 times. But due to the motor having the potential to run correctly in the beggining and now it does not. With all things equal. and none of the other work having the potential to make the car run like this. I keep coming back that the problem lies with the TB adjustment.. But HOW...?????

 

[chittychittybangbang]

RE: the black smoke I just met with someone who had black smoke, bad idle, rattling noise, it was lifters worn all the way through the top and bad cam. A new timing belt shouldn't make this worse, it should just be the same. In his case, new cam+lifters/bearings fixed it.

1 and 2. No, the TB change should not cause this to the point where the engine is rattling as bad as you say. It could be a worn camshaft causing the dull thumping and pulsing, have you seen the videos in the camshaft replacement FAQ article? You should have noticed it before though.

3. Possible, everyone makes mistakes. I suggest putting the engine back to TDC, if the marks are all correct, it shouldn't be wrong. If you look at the picture of the camshaft hole on the head, it's possible to insert the pin if you were way off to the left or right. You said you checked it 3 times, is the tensioner arrow about where it should be? A little more or less will not affect timing.

The 2006 shouldn't be one of the rare cars that might have the round crank sprocket and use tool t10050. They should have the oval crank sprocket and use t10100. Some T10050 were defective from the factory and had the arrow in the wrong spot, the metalnerd tools shouldn't have this problem unless you somehow used the wrong arrow, even then it shouldn't change the position of the belt that much. Using the locating tools the cam-crank don't move.

4. No idea. The rag theory is a common mistake but you already said no. It's normally due to something simple.

6. A little brake clean should quickly evaporate. TDI can't take much fluid without hydrolock so if you really poured it in, enough to cause a small puddle, it's possible it wouldn't have burned off before bending a rod. This doesn't sound likely to me but it's a possibility.

Was the injector wiring harness adjusted? Maybe some wiring that rubbed through was touched and finally broke? This normally throws a code though.

Are the motor mount bolts all secure? You're supposed to use new bolts. If you reuse the old bolts or strip the aluminum mount the engine can shake.

Also, post moved to mk5 section since it's gone beyond an intro.

 

[wolfscc]

Ok. revisiting this 2006 TDI. The tensioner, when motor is cold, has the pointer to the left of the cut out. it is approx. 1/8 to 3/16 to the left. Is this an indicator of the belt not done right and the timing off? I,ve gone thru looking for obvious things nothing yet. What is the impact of not removing the charge pipe between the air filter and turbo when doing timing belt change?

 

[chittychittybangbang]

The crank sprocket is oval and the tension on the belt can vary. If it was fine when you set it (tang in place and pointer correct, tightened clockwise), the tensionser should be fine. On warm engine it can also get tight.

The service manual says to remove that charge pipe. I believe it to be an error since you don't go anywhere near there unless you need access to the lift point to support the engine.

 

[wolfscc]

Thank you for your help on this project. Unfortunately we stiil have a bad running motor and my head is spinning. AAGGHHH. I don't want to go chasing demons. Any other suggestions? Do you know any one nearby me who might be able to offer some sound advice?

 

[wolfscc]

OK finally found that #4 cylinder lobe is the problem. Even though the cam does not look that bad it is definately causing the problem. It looks like replacing it is straight foreward. Do you need the 2 VW tools for this project. VW 10051/52 or can they be substituted with something else? Where is the link for doing this job with procedures, do's and don'ts, and torque specs?

 

[wolfscc]

Ok> Finally found out the problem. #4 lobelifter worn. Now it does not look bad but it is enough to cause our problem. Any suggestions, do's, don'ts, to do cam replacement on BRM head. Do you need the VW tools t10051/52 or can something be substituted? Torgue specs and procedure?

 

[chittychittybangbang]

http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/multi/camshaft-inspection-replace-vw-tdi.htm

RE: tools. Yes you can substitute them. However, I haven't seen a counterholder that will fit the cam pulley. If you remove the cam and pulley as one you can hang the cam from the pulley and use the center bolt to knock it off. It's harder to remove with the pulley on but possible. I do rent them upon request, send a PM if interested

 

[wolfscc]

Well all is well. We replaced cam lifters. It took about 6hrs. We found exhaustion lifter for #4 cylinder wiped out. It looks like it failed badly which made the car run differently from before Tb replacement. It looks like the lifter wore through and lost a portion of spring from the top of lifter. Caution to those who find this type of failure. Look for the fragments of spring in motor. Ours was found in pan with a piece stuck in oil pump screen. Replaced everything and car did not start. Please note to others in your cam replacement thread to purge air out of pump by opening drain plug located between 5mm screws. Process is similar to fuel filter replacement with air purge screw.

 

[bill dionne]

good info, plan on replacing tb tomorrow.