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  1. Truckdriver09

    Truckdriver09 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2012
    Messages:
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    Car:
    Passat TDI/1997
    I have a 1997 volkswagen passat TDI

    I am in the process of removing the timing belt to replace it and I looked at the timing marks on the timing belt tensioner that is already on the car and they seem like they are way off.

    I am not familiar with this car at all and I just wanted to make sure that the tension on the belt is created by lining up the slot and the tab (what I circled), correct? If I line up the 2 marks and there isn't very much tension, does that mean that the tensioner is bad? Also, I see in the timing belt removal guide, it mentions that you need to loosen the tensioner all the way counterclockwise before tightening it...how far counterclockwise will it go? will I know when it has loosened up all the way?

    Thanks
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  2. Seatman

    Seatman Active Member

    Joined:
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    Car:
    2000 Mk4 Golf Estate 1.9tdi 174 bhp
    Location:
    Scotland
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    PP764's, turbo and mapping
    Loosen the nut that holds the tensioner counter clockwise.

    Don't worry about where the marks are now, it's where they are after you've fitted the new belt you need to be concerned with. The belt stretches over time so it'll always be out and it is recommended to replace the tensioner at the same time as the belt. You usually just by a timing belt kit with everything in it.
  3. chittychittybangbang

    chittychittybangbang Administrator

    Joined:
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    Car:
    2006 Jetta TDI
    Location:
    CT
    What does "they are way off mean" how far, 3 mm or 2 cm?

    Tensioner has internal stops, once you turn it you'll immediately feel them.
  4. Truckdriver09

    Truckdriver09 Member

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    Car:
    Passat TDI/1997
    Sorry I completely forgot to post up the picture. So, lining up the timing marks is what sets the tension for the belt?

    Attached Files:

  5. chittychittybangbang

    chittychittybangbang Administrator

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    yes, if you check out mk4 TB DIY, it has a short vid of tensioner action.
  6. Truckdriver09

    Truckdriver09 Member

    Joined:
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    Car:
    Passat TDI/1997
    I was setting the timing to be on TDC so I can prepare to remove the timing belt and this is the result that I got. The marks on the transmission are not lining up, it almost seems like the belt may have possibly jumped a couple of teeth. The camshaft lobes are not touching the lifters and they are creating a "V", and the camshaft lock is in the groove in the camshaft and still the marks on the transmission are off.

    Any suggestions on what to do from here?

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 27, 2012
  7. chittychittybangbang

    chittychittybangbang Administrator

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    Good question! That's nothing to worry about. Remove belt and manually move crank(flywheel) back to TDC. The belt has stretched or the timing was a little off from the last change. One timing belt tooth is more than a single gear tooth on the flywheel if you count the degrees. I'll reread the article to see if it needs any more edits to make this clear.
  8. Truckdriver09

    Truckdriver09 Member

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    Car:
    Passat TDI/1997
    Thank you very much! I think it is because the belt has stretched. When I was rotating the motor to get TDC, I had to apply downard pressure on the belt while I was rotating it, otherwise it seemed like it was going to start jumping the teeth.

    Thanks!
  9. Truckdriver09

    Truckdriver09 Member

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    Car:
    Passat TDI/1997
    When I loosen up the bolt holding the camshaft sprocket, if the camshaft rotates a little once the bolt breaks loose, is it safe to rotate the camshaft counterclockwise to once again line up the timing marks, or do I have to rotate it clockwise?
  10. Seatman

    Seatman Active Member

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    Car:
    2000 Mk4 Golf Estate 1.9tdi 174 bhp
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    Mods:
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    Haven't you locked the cam shaft first? You lock it then loosen the cam bolt to allow the sprocket to move when tensioning the timing belt, once done you retighten it.
  11. Truckdriver09

    Truckdriver09 Member

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    Car:
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    I didn't lock it while I loosened the bolt because I was afraid of possibly cracking the camshaft from too much torque and yes I did use metalnerds counterholding tool, but I actually had to use my 1/2" breaker bar because who ever did the timing belt job last, they put the bolt on way too tight. For me, naturally when I have to use that much strength to break a bolt loose, anything that I am trying to counterhold is going to shift. Im pretty sure with the amount of force I had to use to break it loose, I would have damaged something. It was impossible for me to hold the counterholding tool in one hand and not have the camshaft shift while I used the other hand to break loose the bolt with the breaker bar.

    I still have not removed the old timing belt, I just want to know if I can rotate the motor counterclockwise to get the timing marks on the transmission to line back up to TDC, or do I have to make another revolution clockwise? because like I said, everything moved slightly clockwise and now it's only slightly past the timing marks.
  12. chittychittybangbang

    chittychittybangbang Administrator

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    It's perfectly fine to rotate the camshaft sprocket a tiny bit to get it back to TDC for the lock plate on the other end. Just lightly snug up that bolt again and rotate using the sprocket holes for leverage. Yeah, shouldn't be that tight.

    With the timing belt loose it's OK to turn the crankshaft bolt to get that flywheel stamp back at TDC. It's not the best thing to rotate the injection pump against the normal direction but you're moving it slowly and it's full off fuel. IMHO, will not damage anything and it probably won't move if the belt is loose. Don't rotate the TB via the IP sprocket, I made that mistake once and it jumped the belt. Tensioner should always be on the slack side "behind" where the engine is being pulled through (crank sprocket).
  13. Truckdriver09

    Truckdriver09 Member

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    Car:
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    I did all of that but my timing marks still aren't lined up at the flywheel even with the new belt on. Like it had been mentioned before, maybe it was possible that my belt had stretched and that was the reason my marks didn't line up, but even with a brand new belt on, the marks still won't line up.

    I have moved the crankshaft a few times now to manually get it lined up to TDC at the flywheel without the belt on. Every time I go to slip the new belt on, the crankshaft has to shift slightly to make it so that everything will fit and then the marks end up being off.

    The timing marks were off by the same amount they are now when I had the old belt on...I attempted to get the marks to line up before I got the old belt off, but I was only able to get it close. If I lined the marks up, I would not be able to slip the camshaft lock in, I would have to rotate it clockwise just a hair, and then of course it made the marks off.

    The picture is how much the marks are off with the new belt on. Sorry for the crappy picture, it was as close as I could get.

    Anyone have any suggestions for me? I'm at a standstill right now, don't really know what else to do.

    Attached Files:

  14. chittychittybangbang

    chittychittybangbang Administrator

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    Use a screwdriver or something to hold the flywheel while you put the belt on. Are you using feeler gauges on the camshaft bar? or at least some business cars? Before TDC, turn engine clockwise only, otherwise turn far enough counterclockwise for any slack in system to be removed, that could be doing something. It should be right on.
  15. Truckdriver09

    Truckdriver09 Member

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    Car:
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    I will give that a try. I did use the business cards that came with the metalnerd camshaft lock. Is it suppose to be hard to get the new belt on or should it go on fairly easy?
  16. chittychittybangbang

    chittychittybangbang Administrator

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  17. Truckdriver09

    Truckdriver09 Member

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    Car:
    Passat TDI/1997
    I'm almost convinced that this is as good as it gets on this car. I don't see how I am off a tooth at the crankshaft because I am only off by half a tooth at the flywheel and this is the result that I'm getting with the camshaft lock and injection pump pin lock in place, and there is no slack in the timing belt. Although I do remember when I was taking off the old belt, if I lined up the TDC marks, the camshaft lock would not slide in to place, I had to rotate the motor just a hair more clockwise in order to get it to slide in. Is it possible that the crankshaft has slop in it and this is why the timing belt will not go on at perfectly TDC?

    As you can see in the pic, the flywheel is only off by half a tooth.

    Attached Files:

  18. chittychittybangbang

    chittychittybangbang Administrator

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    at this point I'd just go ahead and adjust injection pump timing as needed.

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