Post glow plug recall hard or no start in cold temperature

Discussion in 'General Diesel Discussion' started by chittychittybangbang, Jan 23, 2010.

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Does your post GP recall TDI have cold starting problems or rough running?

  1. No but I haven't had the glow plug recall done or unknown

    9 vote(s)
    23.1%
  2. No but I live in a warm area

    3 vote(s)
    7.7%
  3. No and I had the glow plug recall done

    1 vote(s)
    2.6%
  4. Yes and I had the glow plug recall done

    24 vote(s)
    61.5%
  5. Yes and I did not have the glow plug recall done or unknown

    5 vote(s)
    12.8%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. chittychittybangbang

    chittychittybangbang Administrator

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    http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/glow-plug-recall-pd-tdi.htm

    This summarizes and clarifies what, why, and what to do about post glow plug recall cold start temperatures. It applies only to 2004-2006 VW TDI.

    While I wouldn't start it, this seems like it would be a decent class action suit since it's easily understandable, many people are affected (probably almost everyone who lives in a cold area who had the glow plug recall done), damages are easily documented, and it's a big FUBAR on VW's part. My best guess is that they decided a a rushed recall vs. a few damaged engines from glow plugs was the lesser of evils.

    I'll start an informal poll for those who have pumpe duse engines only (2004-2006). You can select multiple options since some of you may own multiple TDI.
     
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  2. shftdrvr

    shftdrvr New Member

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    Minor chugging on cold starts.
     
  3. ragingmadatVW

    ragingmadatVW New Member

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    My Jetta TDI Hard Start saga

    In August of 2009 I received the recall notice to have the glo plugs replaced. I subsequently took my 2004 Jetta TDI to the dealer from which I purhased the vehicle and had the new glo plugs installed as directed. When the cooler weather hit in the fall (I live in Calgary Alberta Canada) I began having hard starting difficulties. When the weather became cold (below freezing) my vehicle was extremely difficult to get started. I contacted the Dealer about this issue and was advised that it was probably due to the glo plug recall as 'many other tdi owners were experiencing the same problem'. However I was asked to bring the vehicle in so they could perform a diagnostic to be sure. Following the diagnostic, I was advised by the vehicle technician and service rep that yes in fact the hard starting was being caused by the glo plug recall. They advised me to contact VW Canada which I did immediately upon getting home.
    The service rep (customer advocate - what a cruel joke) advised me there was nothing VW could do because they had not determined how the company was going to respond to this issue. Further I was advised that because I also had a temp sensor fault on the diagnostic code they wouldnt even talk to me until after I had the temp sensor replaced. A $250 expense I was not willing to undergo simply because, as the technician advised, the fault had nothing, ZERO to do with the hard starting issue.
    I tried to go further up the chain and spoke with the customer service manager for VW Canada. She simply parroted 'VW policy' and stated there was nothing they would do until I paid for the replacement temperature sensor. The fact I advised her the technician stated the hard start had nothing to do with the temp sensor fell completely on deaf ears.
    So today, I just got back from having my temp sensor replaced, another $250 hit (parts and labour) plus 4.5 hours lost wages and guess what....my vehicle still does not want to start. (Well DUH! VW - the Temp sensor has nothing to do with the hard starting problem!!!).
    I am so bloody angry at VW right now that I am seriously considering launching a webpage specifically to identify and begin logging the problems and concerns of others - This should become a class action suit against VW that I suspect will cost them millions! The company has been remarkably short-sighted. Not only in issuing the recall in the first place without proper research to understand the consequences but also for the lack of strategy for addressing the customers concerns.
    I look forward to your thoughts.
    Chrischris@raptorprotection.com
     
  4. grn04

    grn04 New Member

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    The customer advocates are experts in giving happyloyal at the Ministry of Customer Satisfaction and Technical Knowledge:) You could unplug the temperature sensor to trick the ecu into max glow plug glow.
     
  5. cbclazy

    cbclazy New Member

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    It could be worse - it could be a Toyota Camry, Matrix, or Corolla.
     
  6. grizzly

    grizzly New Member

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    I don't think that's comparable because the Toyota thing could end up worse than Audi's unintended acceleration debacle. Or kill someone. This is just give you a loaner and call you when it's fixed.
     
  7. spiernitzki

    spiernitzki New Member

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    2004 TDI glowplug recall

    Thank you , Chitty chitty Bang bang
    Thanks for giving me some valuable info that I could not get from mhy dealer or from VW head office. I'm not quite sure how to proceed. I am not really wanting to be involved in a "class action" lawsuit and I would like to find a way of putting some heat on VW. I still do not understand why They cannot give me back what I had before in terms of glowplugs and software "flash". My car seemed fine before and how often do you need to change the glow plugs ?
     
  8. chittychittybangbang

    chittychittybangbang Administrator

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    You don't need to change the glow plugs on a regular basis, just when they're worn.

    The problem is that some Bosch ceramic glow plugs broke off and trashed the engine. They won't give you the old ones back nor would I put used ceramic plugs back in. I am not a professional mechanic or have access to the technical data or experts that VW has. But others have fixed the symptoms that the VW recall has directly caused and the possible causes are in the writeup. Honestly, VW really screwed up on this one. I'm not a lawyer either but I believe it will take large financial damages and a large class to go up against their resources and to cover the cost of hiring experts, etc. Even still, it just takes someone ticked off enough to start and organize a class action lawsuit.
     
  9. grizzly

    grizzly New Member

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    Just playing devil's advocate here: if you sue VW, what are the damages? Unless your car won't start and VW won't give you a loaner, it'll be hard to show damages. Once VW does issue the recall to the recall, from that point on they'll say that we had a small problem and it's now fixed. Too bad they didn't fix it during the warm season but if you want to complain, complain now before it warms up and before they fix this mess. Maybe a stern letter from your lawyer can get an extended warranty or such.
     
  10. RoseBankResident

    RoseBankResident New Member

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    To late, already ate the glow plug

    I already had a plug come lose a tip. Got all of them back from the dealer. Any chance I can get $ back.

    I have not recieved any recall notice.
     
  11. Fluid

    Fluid New Member

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    Did they replace the head and did it trash the engine? The story? It might be a dealer negotiation unless you can get VWofA to reimburse you. Here's what someone else had:
    [​IMG]
     
  12. andreasue

    andreasue Banned

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    I like this solution for my glow plug! Very simple and short! No harm in trying but that is a hassle on my part to unplug first the temperature sensor just to trick it. But if your looking for an alternative this is a nice trick. Cheers!
     
  13. Black Smoke

    Black Smoke New Member

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    I've had the same issues as 'ragingmadatVW' and was raging mad at VW myself.
    Progress has been made this past week, however (Nov 2010).
    Also in Calgary, I was stuck with a 2004 jetta TDI which simply would not start colder than about -10. Even at -5 it took 10 cranks to get the car started, and the neighbourhood was filled with black smoke.
    VW had told me they were 'aware of the problem and working on a fix', then they told me they were 'waiting on parts and would let me know when they were available'.
    Well, I had had it. So I used a combination of politeness, seeking empathy, and putting everything in writing, including the costs I was covering as the result of having a car which wouldn't start in the winter, asking what VW would cover once the TSB came out. (helps that I am out of work and could tell them that)
    Suddenly there were parts arriving, they had time to do it, and I now have a car that started in -20 this weekend, on the first try. Hardly any black smoke at all, but I'll be keeping that as my user name.
    I'm happy to have a car that works, but pretty ticked at VW for letting me wallow in 'Lemon-ville' for two winters.
    Fix was no charge, and the invoice says 4 new glow plugs and a control unit.
    Hope others can get some relief.
    If anyone can recommend a mechanic in Calgary/Canmore/Banff - just need maintenance now - please let me know!
    Black Smoke no more......
     
  14. chittychittybangbang

    chittychittybangbang Administrator

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    Well I got the official recall-recall notice today. It's attached below and has been added to the article. VW is extending the glow plug system for another year. It only took them a year to get around to it. I will report back what they did.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  15. chittychittybangbang

    chittychittybangbang Administrator

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    Am scheduled for this service by the end of the week, will report back what they did and how the car feels.
     
  16. chittychittybangbang

    chittychittybangbang Administrator

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    OK, I found out the final details.

    At least for the BHW 2004-2005 VW Passat TDI hard starting, the fix is a reflash and new glow plugs. The new glow plugs are 7v ceramic but unlike the Bosch ceramic with the fragile tip, the replacements are NGK ceramic with a steel sheath and a wide tip. These are the style of glow plug found in the 2005.5-2006 BRM engine mk5 Jetta (shown below). The blackened area is the sheath and the very tip. The area where the white tip cuts off is where the sheath ends. If your glow plug harness is in bad shape they'll replace it under warranty, if it's fine they won't.

    This should be the final repair. Officially it doesn't start until tomorrow, Dec 3, 2010 but unofficially they've been doing it.

    The part number is n 105 916 09 (n10591609) and it looks like this (from a BRM engine):
    [​IMG]
     
  17. grub

    grub New Member

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    I just bought an ’06 jetta tdi is there any way to tell if the glow plugs have been replaced?
     
  18. chittychittybangbang

    chittychittybangbang Administrator

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    First, I would carefully put some penetrating lube around the base to loosen up the threads.

    Remove them with a 10mm deep socket and read the part number.

    Or look up the service records at a dealership.

    I believe that the recall was only ever for Bosch glow plugs but some dealers did them on any PD engine car.
     
  19. Steve Sears

    Steve Sears New Member

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    Car:
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    I have had the Glow Plug Recall completed during the summer of 2010 and I'm currently experiencing the Cold Start Problem with my 2004 Jetta TDI GLS wagon. My TDI Engine Emission Light came on just yesterday 1/10/2011 and I believe the the accumulation of unburned fuel that shows up in a cloud when I start the TDI has caused the Engine Emission Light to come on.
    I have sent an Email to both VW and my VW Dealership explaining the problem and asking for a fix. As of yet neither has replied.
     
  20. chittychittybangbang

    chittychittybangbang Administrator

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    Double post removed, welcometomyturbodies
    It's possible but I would go to the dealer first and see what they say.

    I updated the FAQ but forgot to update this post for anyone who didn't read the FAQ article on this: the 2005 Passat TDI which originally had Bosch Glow plugs which were replaced w/steel and reflash has been updated with NGK sheathed glow plugs and another reflash. Starting isn't as good as it originally was and isn't as good as my 2006 Jetta TDI that originally came with NGK glow plugs, but it starts first crank every time. It does stumble a little bit but not nearly as bad as with the botched steel glow plugs which often didn't start the first time when it was really cold.
     

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