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No low boost (no spike) turbo broken? - VCDS graphs

Discussion in 'Mk5 VW Jetta, Sportwagen, and Audi A3 TDI' started by max69vk, May 20, 2012.

  1. max69vk

    max69vk New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2012
    Messages:
    9
    Car:
    Audi A3 2.0 TDI 16v
    After having a complete head replacement thanks to AUDI on my PD170 TDI I'm finding that the car seems to lack low end boost, when it gets moving it has a good amount of pull but the initial kick just isn't there any more. I've done several runs & logged the data in VCDS & they all appear to show the same result. Below is a run in 5th gear from around 1400rpm to 4200rpm, logging engine measuring blocks 003, 010 & 011.

    As you can see the requested boost vs actual boost at low end is well off & the spike is totally missing.

    I've tested the turbo actuator which is ok, EGR is ok, MAF is ok, vacuum lines all appear to be ok, what could be causing this lack of low end grunt? Does this mean the turbo is wrecked?

    [​IMG]

    Thanks in advance.
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  2. max69vk

    max69vk New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2012
    Messages:
    9
    Car:
    Audi A3 2.0 TDI 16v
    Group A: '003
    Engine Speed Exhaust Gas Exhaust Gas Exhaust Gas
    TIME (G28) Recirculat. (spec.) Recirculat. (actual) Recirc. Duty Cycle
    STAMP /min mg/str mg/str %
    0.13 1461 518.1 518 0
    0.54 1449 508.7 524.2 18
    0.97 1468 641.4 641.4 0
    1.41 1488 729.8 729.8 0
    1.85 1509 835.9 835.9 0
    2.27 1544 949 949 0
    2.71 1581 1065.6 1065.6 0
    3.15 1623 1113.9 1113.9 0
    3.59 1663 1073 1073 0
    4.01 1703 1092.7 1092.7 0
    4.45 1767 1127.7 1127.7 0
    4.88 1801 1144.6 1141.9 0
    5.32 1858 1122.4 1125 0
    5.74 1912 1134.8 1136.8 0
    6.18 1963 1140 1141.7 0
    6.62 2014 1131.7 1149.2 0
    7.06 2059 1158.8 1167.7 0
    7.48 2117 1188.3 1190.4 0
    7.92 2168 1203.1 1188.3 0
    8.36 2215 1228.2 1224 0
    8.79 2271 1211.3 1211.3 0
    9.22 2318 1195.4 1205 0
    9.65 2368 1196.5 1196.5 0
    10.09 2410 1200 1200 0
    10.53 2470 1195.2 1195.2 0
    10.95 2513 1188.3 1188.3 0
    11.39 2566 1179.4 1179.4 0
    11.83 2598 1181.1 1181.1 0
    12.27 2663 1187.5 1187.5 0
    12.69 2691 1185.1 1185.1 0
    13.11 2740 1202.7 1206 0
    13.55 2782 1196 1196 0
    14 2835 1182.8 1182.4 0
    14.41 2869 1189 1199 0
    14.85 2915 1184.6 1189.1 0
    15.29 2962 1174.9 1181.3 0
    15.73 3000 1176.3 1171.2 0
    16.15 3034 1185.8 1190.8 0
    16.59 3082 1166.2 1183.2 0
    17.02 3118 1173.4 1173.4 0
    17.46 3163 1181.6 1181.6 0
    17.88 3188 1200.6 1200.6 0
    18.32 3233 1185.1 1185.1 0
    18.76 3279 1171.5 1171.5 0
    19.2 3317 1191.8 1191.8 0
    19.62 3341 1176.8 1176.8 0
    20.06 3376 1160.3 1160.3 0
    20.5 3406 1160.9 1160.9 0
    20.94 3441 1167.3 1167.3 0
    21.36 3473 1176.8 1176.8 0
    21.79 3507 1186.5 1190.7 0
    22.23 3534 1217.1 1219.4 0
    22.67 3555 1172.3 1171.6 0
    23.09 3602 1163.3 1165.1 0
    23.53 3628 1152.6 1156.4 0
    23.97 3646 1139.5 1143.9 0
    24.41 3686 1138.8 1140.3 0
    24.82 3705 1140.7 1146.4 0
    25.27 3729 1152.9 1153.1 0
    25.7 3757 1145 1145 0
    26.14 3784 1135.9 1135.9 0
    26.58 3801 1145 1145 0
    27.01 3825 1143.5 1143.5 0
    27.44 3851 1146.4 1142.6 0
    27.89 3877 1148.9 1148.9 0
    28.31 3888 1137.3 1137.3 0
    28.74 3918 1143 1141.9 0
    29.18 3946 1141.7 1150.5 0
    29.62 3959 1140.3 1144.3 0
    30.04 3986 1141.9 1133 0
    30.48 4010 1128.9 1130.6 0
    30.92 4028 1114.8 1122.9 0
    31.36 4046 1136.3 1126.1 0
    31.78 4071 1114.4 1122.4 0
    32.21 4088 1118 1118 0
    32.65 4106 1115 1115 0
    33.09 4127 1116 1116 0
    33.51 4138 1123.6 1123.6 0

    Group B: '010
    Mass Air Flow Atmospheric Boost Pressure Accel. Pedal Pos.
    TIME (actual) Pressure (actual) Sensor 1 (G79)
    STAMP mg/str mbar mbar %
    0.27 525.1 1007.2 1104.5 0
    0.7 500.2 1007.2 1114.4 99.9
    1.12 671.7 1007.2 1258.6 99.9
    1.55 756 1007.2 1428.7 99.9
    1.99 880 1007.2 1633.9 99.9
    2.43 996.8 1007.2 1884.8 99.9
    2.85 1110.7 1007.2 2120.8 99.9
    3.29 1092 1007.2 2275.8 99.9
    3.73 1067.2 1007.2 2280 99.9
    4.17 1106.9 1007.2 2310.7 99.9
    4.58 1129.1 1006 2356.2 99.9
    5.02 1126.9 1007.2 2386.8 99.9
    5.46 1120.9 1007.2 2391.2 99.9
    5.9 1130.5 1007.2 2399.6 99.9
    6.32 1123.5 1007.2 2407.2 99.9
    6.76 1177.1 1007.2 2430.5 99.9
    7.2 1164.2 1007.2 2448.6 99.9
    7.64 1200 1007.2 2478.6 99.9
    8.06 1198.5 1007.2 2500 99.9
    8.5 1229.1 1007.2 2539.8 99.9
    8.93 1216.8 1007.2 2540.2 99.9
    9.37 1205.8 1007.2 2530.1 99.9
    9.79 1195.6 1007.2 2510 99.9
    10.23 1187.5 1007.2 2499 99.9
    10.67 1166.6 1007.2 2480 99.9
    11.11 1186.5 1007.2 2478.6 99.9
    11.53 1176.3 1007.2 2478.6 99.9
    11.97 1177.3 1007.2 2490 99.9
    12.41 1189.7 1007.2 2490 99.9
    12.84 1192.6 1007.2 2499 99.9
    13.26 1194.4 1007.2 2500 99.9
    13.69 1203.1 1007.2 2500 99.9
    14.13 1183.9 1007.2 2500 99.9
    14.57 1195.4 1007.2 2500 99.9
    15 1169.1 1007.2 2509.2 99.9
    15.43 1179.1 1007.2 2509.2 99.9
    15.87 1167.9 1007.2 2500 99.9
    16.31 1188.3 1007.2 2509.2 99.9
    16.73 1191.8 1007.2 2509.2 99.9
    17.17 1204 1007.2 2520 99.9
    17.6 1182.1 1007.2 2530.1 99.9
    18.04 1181.7 1007.2 2539.8 99.9
    18.46 1178.1 1007.2 2529.6 99.9
    18.9 1176 1007.2 2519.4 99.9
    19.34 1172.3 1007.2 2510 99.9
    19.78 1183.4 1007.2 2509.5 99.9
    20.2 1169.6 1007.2 2509.2 99.9
    20.64 1158.3 1007.2 2509.2 99.9
    21.07 1161.3 1007.2 2509.2 99.9
    21.51 1165.8 1007.2 2509.5 99.9
    21.93 1211.3 1007.2 2590.8 99.9
    22.37 1194.1 1007.2 2601 99.9
    22.81 1184.1 1007.2 2550.2 99.9
    23.25 1152 1007.2 2519.4 99.9
    23.67 1159 1007.2 2500 99.9
    24.11 1138.5 1007.2 2490 99.9
    24.55 1141.7 1007.2 2488.8 99.9
    24.98 1138.2 1006 2490 99.9
    25.41 1146 1006 2490 99.9
    25.85 1134 1007.2 2490 99.9
    26.28 1144.8 1007.2 2490 99.9
    26.73 1142.6 1007.2 2490 99.9
    27.15 1137.4 1007.2 2499 99.9
    27.59 1148 1007.2 2499.8 99.9
    28.02 1135.3 1007.2 2499.4 99.9
    28.46 1132.6 1007.2 2500 99.9
    28.88 1138.2 1007.2 2499 99.9
    29.32 1145.7 1008 2499 99.9
    29.76 1149.8 1007.2 2499 99.9
    30.2 1130.1 1007.2 2500 99.9
    30.62 1118.2 1007.2 2490 99.9
    31.06 1123.3 1007.2 2479.9 99.9
    31.5 1123.2 1007.2 2470 99.9
    31.93 1115.5 1007.2 2478.6 99.9
    32.36 1122 1007.2 2479 99.9
    32.79 1122.4 1007.2 2480 99.9
    33.23 1127.1 1007.2 2480 99.9
    33.67 1110 1007.2 2480 99.9

    Group C: '011
    Engine Speed Boost Pressure Boost Pressure Charge Pressure
    TIME (G28) (specified) (actual) Control Duty Cycle
    STAMP /min mbar mbar %
    0.41 1454 1103.8 1103.5 61.9
    0.84 1478 2149.7 1165.3 85
    1.28 1473 1953.6 1312.5 78.1
    1.69 1492 1998 1492.4 60.1
    2.13 1523 2047.7 1706.4 60.8
    2.57 1566 2119 1964.6 63.8
    3.01 1601 2173.6 2190.2 54.3
    3.43 1645 2246.8 2290 64.2
    3.87 1691 2304 2284.5 64.6
    4.31 1754 2341.1 2321.8 60.7
    4.74 1797 2381.4 2370 59.7
    5.17 1843 2417.4 2390.7 58.7
    5.6 1884 2448.6 2397 58.5
    6.04 1937 2478.6 2400.4 59
    6.48 1997 2499.4 2417.4 57.5
    6.9 2046 2500 2437.8 57.1
    7.34 2096 2500 2450.2 57.3
    7.78 2147 2500 2488.8 56.6
    8.22 2204 2500 2519.4 55.7
    8.64 2257 2500 2539.8 55.6
    9.07 2302 2500 2540.2 52.5
    9.51 2342 2500 2529.6 52.5
    9.95 2401 2500 2509.2 51.4
    10.37 2444 2500 2490 50.3
    10.81 2498 2500 2479.7 49.2
    11.25 2552 2500 2478.6 49.5
    11.69 2591 2500 2480 48.8
    12.11 2638 2500 2490 49.1
    12.55 2679 2500 2499 48.2
    12.98 2734 2500 2499 47.3
    13.41 2775 2500 2500 47.5
    13.83 2815 2500 2500 47.3
    14.27 2862 2500 2509.2 45.3
    14.71 2909 2500 2509.2 45
    15.15 2937 2500 2509.8 43.8
    15.57 2990 2500 2500 46
    16.01 3033 2500 2509.2 46.2
    16.44 3067 2500 2509.2 42.5
    16.89 3105 2500 2510 45.9
    17.31 3143 2500 2529.6 42.3
    17.74 3180 2500 2530.1 43.7
    18.18 3216 2500 2530.1 43.5
    18.62 3261 2500 2529.6 43.4
    19.04 3293 2500 2519.4 42.9
    19.48 3329 2500 2509.2 39.9
    19.92 3370 2500 2509.2 39.8
    20.36 3395 2500 2509.2 42.4
    20.78 3429 2500 2509.8 42.6
    21.21 3461 2500 2509.2 40
    21.65 3495 2500 2509.2 44.1
    22.09 3517 2500 2601 34.8
    22.51 3557 2500 2580.6 40.4
    22.95 3589 2500 2539.8 40.4
    23.39 3617 2500 2510 41.2
    23.83 3640 2500 2499.8 40.8
    24.25 3674 2500 2488.8 41
    24.69 3694 2500 2488.8 41.6
    25.12 3717 2500 2490 41.2
    25.57 3749 2500 2490 40.9
    25.99 3774 2500 2490 41.4
    26.43 3797 2500 2490 42.7
    26.87 3822 2500 2499 43.7
    27.31 3840 2500 2499 43.7
    27.73 3862 2500 2499.4 42.4
    28.16 3881 2500 2499.6 41.9
    28.6 3910 2500 2499.6 40.3
    29.04 3935 2500 2499 43
    29.46 3955 2500 2499 42
    29.9 3979 2500 2499 42.2
    30.34 4002 2500 2500 41.1
    30.78 4019 2500 2489.5 40.2
    31.2 4045 2499 2470.1 43.4
    31.64 4066 2499 2478.6 41.6
    32.07 4075 2499 2478.6 41.6
    32.51 4095 2490 2478.6 42
    32.93 4116 2490 2480 42.7
    33.37 4132 2489.2 2480 40.9
    33.81 4155 2488.8 2478.6 42.9
  3. Nog

    Nog New Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2012
    Messages:
    8
    Car:
    A4
    Have you sorted this
  4. max69vk

    max69vk New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2012
    Messages:
    9
    Car:
    Audi A3 2.0 TDI 16v
    Nope, gone back to the garage for the 5th time now! So far the car has had 2 sets of injectors & an entire cylinder head (all paid for by Audi), I've tried telling them the turbo (& possibly DPF) are shot but they wont listen! Here's another VCDS graph showing how low the boost is compared to spec...

    Top graph
    Orange line = Rpm (actual)
    Light blue = Boost (spec) ECU
    Green = Boost (actual) measure block 10 (VCDS)
    Pink = Boost (actual) measure block 11 (VCDS)


    [​IMG]
  5. Nog

    Nog New Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2012
    Messages:
    8
    Car:
    A4
    Under warranty, lucky you. If the Maf is unplugged and run the same cycle as above is the boost any better, if you run round the block with Maf out does it run any better.
  6. max69vk

    max69vk New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2012
    Messages:
    9
    Car:
    Audi A3 2.0 TDI 16v
    I've tried unplugging the MAF & as soon as I do do the car runs even worse. I've done output test on VCDS & all the solenoids/vacuum lines etc seems to operate ok, I have noticed that since the cambelt was done the injection timing has slipped from around 0.3 to 0.8 degrees although I'm not sure how much of an effect this would have. The 2nd garage have told me that they've had to drain around 3/4 litres of oil as it was overfilled, they reckon that's why the DPF kept going into regen, still doesn't explain the lack of engine response.
  7. Nog

    Nog New Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2012
    Messages:
    8
    Car:
    A4
    What sort of diagnostic system are you using, what sort outlay$$? Is the air filter ok.
  8. max69vk

    max69vk New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2012
    Messages:
    9
    Car:
    Audi A3 2.0 TDI 16v
    Yeah the air filter was replaced less than 1000 miles ago, oil & filter are brand new as is the cambelt, tensioners & entire top end. Im using the latest Ross-Tech VCDS which is probably the best bit of kit I've bought in years!
  9. louisp123

    louisp123 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2013
    Messages:
    2
    Car:
    2003 Golf TDI GLS
    Mods:
    VNT-17 turbo, 11MM pump, 0.216 nozzles, VR6/G60 cl
    Hello everyone, new memeber of veteran on-looker :)

    Buddy I feel your pain.... I have THE EXACT SAME PROBLEM!!!! although mine is on a ALH. This happened to me immediately after tuning from stage 1.5 to stage 2 Unitronic (wtf?!?!) since then I had the unitronic tune adjusted, got a whole new mapping done, then got that new mapping looked threw by another.... now I said enough is enough (aka D'LA MARDE!!!) and replaced the old engine due to a bad lifter but this time with a VNT-17, 11mm pump, freshly popped injectors with .216 nozzles AND BELCHES OF BLACK SMOKE AND STILL NO LOW END TORQUE SPIKE!!! to be fair the MR tune mapping I have on it right now is set for the stock VNT-15, 10MM pump, and 0.216 nozzles.

    I don't mean to highjack your thread but I think we are having the exact same issue...

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