faulty turbo actuator $1500

Discussion in 'VW Mk4 Jetta, Golf, New Beetle, Passat TDI forum' started by Andtaxes, Nov 17, 2016.

  1. Andtaxes

    Andtaxes New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2016
    Messages:
    2
    Car:
    mk4 golf
    Location:
    Canada
    Not out of a sense of pride or curiosity...mostly because I am not able to justify 1500$ to fix what is likely a faulty turbo actuator on a car that isn't worth that much.

    Background:
    My car "runs" just fine. I have not been kind to it and it is starting to bite me in the ass. The car in question is an MK4 2006 Golf Tdi. I have never done anything major on a vehicle but I'm fairly mechanically inclined. I have a second vehicle that I can use if it gets knocked offline but I would rather not botch it that badly.

    Symptoms:
    -Sluggish acceleration. To go from zero to 100km/h it takes nearly 25 seconds on a flat road.
    -Poor fuel mileage (650 km to a tank, granted mostly city driving)'
    -With the accelerator flat on the floor the engine revs and seems to shift just fine but there's just not enough "oomph" to get me going.
    -Sounds and feels like driving a very ambitious lawn tractor.

    Things I am told:

    -I am told my turbo's exhaust manifold is likely to be clogged and shitty
    -I am told I have a sticky "gate". What this is and why it sticks is a mystery to me.
    -I am told my actuator is likely starting to give, failing that my turbo vanes are sticking.

    Other issues I am having:
    My muffler is just for show. I smell like a fueling station at all times and sound like a highschool kid's sad Honda. My understanding of muffler replacement is to take an angle grinder to it and then put on a new universal one. If I am wrong and it's actually more complicated than that please enlighten me.


    All of that being said I've come to ask some questions to keep myself from making dumb mistakes while attempting to repair the turbo actuator. My understanding is that the mechanism could be damaged, the vaccuum line could be damaged or the wiring harness could be damaged. It is seemingly unlikely that the turbo proper is damaged.


    1) If I get myself a mityvac/handvac what sort of attatchments do I need to make the connection to the vacuum line?
    2) If I get a replacement actuator (from the prices I've seen I may as well) what kind will I need? I had read (somewhere) that I may need to retrofit a newer one onto the car with a bracket.
    3) While I am down there ****ing around, is there anything else that is prudent to do? I plan to replace the vacuum lines just on principle
    4) If I have to replace the actuator (rather than a faulty solenoid or busted vac line) is it something that requires additional adjustments? I vaguely remember skimming over something about timing to the turbo. I would assume it has something to do with actuator length.
    5) What am I missing? I've read up a bit and it seems like its not really rocket science but that doesnt mean anything if I get under the car and am completely wrong.


    Thanks in advance. I'm actually sort of looking forward to fixing this on my own rather than paying some one but I really don't want to add to the bill by botching it.
     
  2. Seatman

    Seatman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    5,794
    Car:
    2000 Mk4 Golf Estate 1.9tdi 174 bhp
    Location:
    Scotland
    Mods:
    PP764's, turbo and mapping
    Usually with turbo issues the car goes into a thing called limp mode but the power comes back after a restart, permanent low power can be the maf, you could unplug it and see if there's any difference, it should be better or worse. If it's the same I'd suspect it as being faulty.
    Ideally you'd get it on vagcom and test it under load.

    limp mode,low power etc

    http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/mk4-vw-jetta-tdi-golf-new-beetle-diy-index/#engine
     
    Tom MacDonald likes this.
  3. Andtaxes

    Andtaxes New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2016
    Messages:
    2
    Car:
    mk4 golf
    Location:
    Canada
    Couple of updates :

    Installed a new maf two weeks ago, appears to be functioning correctly. I am unplugging it and driving for a bit to see if there is any notable change. Its an eBay maf from a high rated seller but it could be an issue as well.

    Put the code reader on it and I am getting p2564. Torque tells me it is a Turbo boost control position sensor circuit low.

    Does that low mean there is a lack of boost? I would assume so but I don't really know.

    Thanks for the hand, I'm trying to get as much data as possible before I invest a weekend under the car


    Edit : Unplugging the maf has resulted in less power over all.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2016
  4. Seatman

    Seatman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
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    Car:
    2000 Mk4 Golf Estate 1.9tdi 174 bhp
    Location:
    Scotland
    Mods:
    PP764's, turbo and mapping
    You sure it's a mk4 and not a mk5? Maybe your guys cars have the electric actutor for the turbo on the mk4.
    Anyway there's a sensor on it and it's reading not enough movement, could be the sensors faulty or the turbo vnt mech is sticking.

    http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/18996/P2564/009572
     
  5. dadeamann

    dadeamann New Member

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    Oct 3, 2016
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    Car:
    2004 TDI jetta wagen BEW
    Location:
    milwaukee
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    i had the same thing happen. i got a 2004 jetta with the BEW. i pulled the turbo actuator and when i manually pushed the rod in and out i could hear crunching, like rust getting stepped on. i got the replacement actuator. i had to take the mount off the old one to use on the new one and buy a few pieces of hardware in order to make it work.

    as far as setting the adjustment i got a generic vacuum pump and used what came with it to set the new actuator. i believe you should start to see the rod move at around 3hg and it should be fully extended at around 18hg.

    its been good ever since
     
    Tom MacDonald likes this.
  6. Tom MacDonald

    Tom MacDonald Member

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    Messages:
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    Car:
    2004 Jetta TDI Station Wagon (North American)
    Location:
    Halifax, Nova Scotia
    ^^^
    I pulled mine too and it didn't make the crunch sound when I tested it with a vacuum pump.

    If it is a mk4 BEW (Pumpe Duse engine) then it might also be a camshaft issue.

    I bought one last year and they are famous for failing around the 300 to 400 km mark, sometimes earlier. That's the reason I bought it; my boss didn't want to pay someone $2-3 thousand to replace the camshaft. I replaced mine last year (plus new lifters) and the car suddenly stopped smoking and came back to life.

    I also cleaned my intake manifold (just take it to the self-serve car wash and hit it with some oven cleaner and a pressure washer while hot). Its possible that you are getting enough boost pressure but there is just so much air restiction in the intake that not enough air is getting into the engine, causing a rich combustion mixture (and hence smoke).

    As for the code you pulled....

    I currently have a persistent error that brings on my check engine light, which my VAGCOM says is due to the VNT "boost actuator position sensor" not sending to the computer (not a short apparently). Since it is just a boost actuator position sensor, then I believe the computer just defaults to using the MAP sensor to control the vacuum to the boost actuator instead of going into limp mode. It must, because the car runs just fine even without being able to sense the boost actuator. Likely if MAP failed I would have limp mode but for now it drives the same, just with a constant check engine light which is total...

    :BS
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2016
  7. dadeamann

    dadeamann New Member

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    2004 TDI jetta wagen BEW
    Location:
    milwaukee
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    tom, im pretty sure the actuator is the only thing that controls the vanes of the turbo. its not a position sensor. the vacuum is generated off the tandem pump which is ran off the cam.

    you might want to grab a vacuum pump and check out how yours is operating.
     
  8. Tom MacDonald

    Tom MacDonald Member

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    Car:
    2004 Jetta TDI Station Wagon (North American)
    Location:
    Halifax, Nova Scotia
    Correct, the actuator is what physically moves the vanes and changes their geometry. That action is accomplished via a vacuum tube hooked up to a solenoid that pulses open and closed to control the amount of vacuum in the line. The computer controls the duty cycle of that solenoid such that it "spins up" the turbo at lower RPMs when you push the gas pedal down. The computer will put the car in limp mode if it can't figure out how much boost the turbo is putting out. It can figure out how much boost it wants to put out based on a bunch of parameters (mostly how much you are pushing the gas pedal).

    Now that's all well and good but there's a second part to the actuator that is separate from the vacuum control stuff. That part is the actuator position sensor. This is a sensor that reports how far in/out the turbo actuator plunger has traveled. It is a good sensor to have working because it allows the computer to figure out exactly what the duty cycle of the solenoid should be that is controlling the turbo actuator vacuum line pressure. When the sensor is not reporting properly (as is my case), I believe the computer simply defaults to a map of theoretical duty cycles to set the solenoid to. I think it does this using a rough correlation between duty cycle and intake manifold pressure reading i.e "i want the manifold pressure to be 1500 mbar therefore I will set the duty cycle to X".

    So therefore, I think a turbo actuator position sensor malfunction is not a critical malfunction, at least in my driving experience. I don't think you can read the value of the actuator position sensor with VCDS (otherwise I would have). Nonetheless, here is a plot of what my car is doing at the moment with a faulty position sensor (accelerating from 0 to 50 km/h):

    [​IMG]

    and here is the code that I am reading from the engine module:

    1 Fault Found:

    18996 - Turbocharger Boost Control Position Sensor Circuit
    P2564 - 000 - Signal too Low

    As you can see from the graph I am not in limp mode, and the turbo is boosting, although the response is lagging (the "actual" boost is always behind the "specified" boost), and it also appears to be over-boosting (which I can confirm with my mechanical boost gauge in-car) under harder acceleration.
     
    dadeamann likes this.
  9. dadeamann

    dadeamann New Member

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    Car:
    2004 TDI jetta wagen BEW
    Location:
    milwaukee
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    ok good to know. so is the position sensor on the actuator? i'm guessing so since its considered "smart" and has an electrical connection. and if so i'm going to assume you'd have to replace the complete actuator.
     
  10. Tom MacDonald

    Tom MacDonald Member

    Joined:
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    Car:
    2004 Jetta TDI Station Wagon (North American)
    Location:
    Halifax, Nova Scotia
    More information on this error code from these threads:
    • barely got over 65mph
      • One guy fixed his "can't go over 65 mph" problem by spraying brake cleaner in his N75 valve

    Sorry to inform you but there is not VW part number for the actuator, it comes as an entire unit with a new turbo. But you can buy a new aftermarket turbo actuator ( see kerma TDI smart VNT actuator ) for $234 USD. From their site:

    Requires custom modification to fit a Borg Warner KP 39 factor turbo use on 2004 to 2006 New Beetle TDI, 2004 to 2006 Golf TDI, and 2004 to 2005 Jetta TDI. Modification to use on the borg-warner turbos requires few dollars in parts from the hardware store and modest fabrication skills. We can send some pictures and instructions that show how to do this with your order- requires very modest fab skills and a bit of patience, but significant cost savings over buying a complete new turbo.

    Here is the myturbodiesel.com wiki guide on doing this mod:

    How to replace the VNT actuator on a BEW VW TDI engine (modification required)

    As for the error code of OP, could be just bad wiring.

    Basically:

    VAG Error Code: 18996/009572

    EOBD II Error Code: P2564

    Fault Location:
    Turbocharger Boost Control Position Sensor (G581) - Signal too Low

    Possible Cause:
    Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL)(K83) active.

    Wiring/Connector(s).
    Turbocharger Vane Position Sensor (G500) faulty.

    Possible Solutions:
    Check/Replace Wiring/Connector(s) from/to Turbocharger Vane Position Sensor (G500).
    Check Turbocharger Vane Position Sensor (G500).
    When found in VW 2.0L PD TDI with engine codes BRM and BEW see Measuring Block 043.2 for Turbocharger Vane Position Sensor (G500) readings.
    Key On, Engine Off (KOEO) Measuring Value Blocks (MVB) 043.2 should be 0%.
    Key On, Engine Run (KOER) Measuring Value Blocks (MVB) should be 100%.

    VAG Error Code: 16618/000564

    EOBD II Error Code: P0234

    Fault Location:
    Boost Pressure Regulation - Limit Exceeded (Overboost Condition)

    Possible Cause:
    Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL)(K83) active.
    Boost Pressure too high.
    Reduced Power Output.

    Hoses incorrectly connected, disconnected, blocked or leaking.
    Boost Pressure Regulation Valve (N75) faulty.
    Manifold Pressure/Boost Sensor (G31) faulty.
    Turbocharger stuck/faulty.

    Possible Solutions:
    Check Charge Pressure Control System.
    Read Measuring Value Blocks (MVB).
    Perform Output Test (to check the Turbocharger).
    Perform Basic Setting (to check the Charge Pressure Control).
    Difference of set value boost pressure vs. altitude sensor signal > 200 - 1275 hPa.
    Perform Pressure Test to locate Leaks.
    Check/Replace Boost Pressure Regulation Valve (N75).
    Check/Replace Manifold Pressure/Boost Sensor (G31).
    Check/Replace Turbocharger.

    Description:
    The boost pressure sensor responds to pressure changes in the intake manifold. This pressure is created by the turbocharger and changes with accelerator pedal position and engine speed. The Engine Control Module (ECM) uses this information to assist in diagnosis of the barometric pressure (BARO) sensor and to provide engine overboost protection. The boost pressure sensor has a 5-volt reference circuit, a low reference circuit, and a signal circuit. The Engine Control Module (ECM) supplies 5 volts to the boost pressure sensor on the 5-volt reference 2 circuit, and provides a ground on a low reference circuit. The boost pressure sensor provides a signal to the Engine Control Module (ECM) on a signal circuit relative to the pressure changes. The Engine Control Module (ECM) monitors the boost pressure sensor signal for voltage outside of the normal range. The Engine Control Module (ECM) calculates a predicted value for the boost pressure sensor. The Engine Control Module (ECM) then compares the predicted value to the actual signal.


    and...

    VAG Error Code: 18996/009572

    EOBD II Error Code: P2564

    Fault Location:
    Turbocharger Boost Control Position Sensor (G581) - Signal too Low

    Possible Cause:
    Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL)(K83) active.

    Wiring/Connector(s).
    Turbocharger Vane Position Sensor (G500) faulty.

    Possible Solutions:
    Check/Replace Wiring/Connector(s) from/to Turbocharger Vane Position Sensor (G500).
    Check Turbocharger Vane Position Sensor (G500).
    When found in VW 2.0L PD TDI with engine codes BRM and BEW see Measuring Block 043.2 for Turbocharger Vane Position Sensor (G500) readings.
    Key On, Engine Off (KOEO) Measuring Value Blocks (MVB) 043.2 should be 0%.
    Key On, Engine Run (KOER) Measuring Value Blocks (MVB) should be 100%.

    As taken from Keithuk's Free EOBD II Error Codes software
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2016
  11. chris oshana

    chris oshana New Member

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    2004 VW Jetta BEW wagon
    Location:
    Florida
    Mods:
    stock
    dadeamann-Did you remove the actuator while it was on the car? How do you get to it, bottom or top? How long did it take? I can barely see mine it seems so deep in the engine bay (2004 BEW Jetta)
     
  12. chris oshana

    chris oshana New Member

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    Location:
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    Andtaxes-I have a 2004 BEW Jetta wagon (auto) I also get the same fuel mileage as you, and have what I describe is often low power. Meaning some times I get decent torque/power, but mostly low. I just replaced 99% of my vacuum lines, black/white check valve (was bad, one-way feature failed). I have to find how to get my ape like forearms near the actuator to replace that 3 foot original section too. Not sure, but I think my actuator must be bad too.
     
  13. Tom MacDonald

    Tom MacDonald Member

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    Car:
    2004 Jetta TDI Station Wagon (North American)
    Location:
    Halifax, Nova Scotia
    It's relatively accessible from under the car, once you remove the splash shield.
     
  14. chris oshana

    chris oshana New Member

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    Sweet ! Thank you!!! Doing this weekend...
     
  15. dadeamann

    dadeamann New Member

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    2004 TDI jetta wagen BEW
    Location:
    milwaukee
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    yeah i got at mine from the bottom. jack the car up and remove the splash shield like tom said and its pretty easy to get at. it shouldnt take more then a couple hours at most. i too have a 2004 bew wagon.
     
  16. chris oshana

    chris oshana New Member

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    dadeamann-what kind of miles are you able to put down with a tank of fuel? Ventecotmy done or no? I was able to get 450-460mi per 13.5gal tank (60/70% city driving). Now I am getting right around 400miles per tank. That's why I'm thinking turbo system probs. I'm going to check if the rear brakes are dragging next. I just replaced my mostly original vacuum lines with silicone.

    How did you add your Fuelly thing to the forum? I'd like to post mine too.
     
  17. Tom MacDonald

    Tom MacDonald Member

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    Car:
    2004 Jetta TDI Station Wagon (North American)
    Location:
    Halifax, Nova Scotia
    I'm clocking about 620 miles per 15.85 gal tank (~1000 km per tank), and my boost sensor's gone... however I've noticed that in the city my mileage is about 50% of highway, so city driving definitely seems to be getting affected by no actuator sensor.
     
  18. chris oshana

    chris oshana New Member

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    Florida
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    Wow, you are able to put 15.85 gallon in? I'm guessing you have the ventectomy then? I'll have to do that so we cam compare fuel range (your being better as it's a stick). I will be converting mine to std. once the Tiptronic goes one day. You are saying your boost actuator (from the "smart actuator") is bad? Did that come up on VCDS? Are you also on the "other" TDI forum too? Fred's.
     
  19. dadeamann

    dadeamann New Member

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    2004 TDI jetta wagen BEW
    Location:
    milwaukee
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    Chris- i usually fill it up at the half tank mark. I'm getting about 300-350 miles depending on time of the year.

    i think you can copy some html off the fuelly website to link it to your posts.
     
  20. willem wikel spies

    willem wikel spies New Member

    Joined:
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    Car:
    jetta mk4 tdi 1900 2002
    Location:
    Heidelberg Gauteng South Africa
    your symptoms seems similar to mine.
    see my tread.
     

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