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Differences: Auto ALH vs Manual ALH ?

Discussion in 'VW Mk4 Jetta, Golf, New Beetle, Passat TDI forum' started by briandownunda, Feb 14, 2012.

  1. briandownunda

    briandownunda New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2011
    Messages:
    15
    Car:
    vw golf TDI 2001
    I have a 2001 TDI golf with manual transmission and a bad engine. I have a replacement ALH engine which was extracted from a 2003 Jetta with an automatic transmission. Aside from the flywheel, and perhaps the starter motor, are there any other parts on the automatic TDI engine that are different from the manual TDI engine? I would just like to make sure that I perform all of the necessary part swaps required prior to installation, if possible.
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  2. YMZ

    YMZ Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2010
    Messages:
    1,905
    Car:
    Jetta 2003, Golf 2001
    Location:
    Latitude 44.407959, longitude -76.018369.
    The injection pump on the automatic is a bit more powerful (which isn't a bad thing), but the injectors have nozzles with smaller diameter openings, so if you can swap the injectors (you'll need to change the connector on the # 3 injector... that can be tricky...), you should do so... (of course, you could go all the way and send the injectors out to one of the respected "injector doctors" and have new nozzles put on and balanced...). As well, the automatic doesn't have the coolant heater glow plugs, so if you'd like to keep the car operating as it should, you'll need to swap the coolant header at the driver's side of the cylinder head...

    Have fun... it's not that bad a job... oh, and you should put on a new timing belt kit while the engine's out of the car... much easier that way... I assume you've seen the procedure here... http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/a4/ALH-engine-timing-belt-change-VW-Jetta-TDI-1.htm

    It would also not be a bad idea to upgrade the clutch to a single-mass flywheel ("G60/VR6") setup... just make sure that the flywheel has a TDC mark...

    All the best,

    Yuri
  3. briandownunda

    briandownunda New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2011
    Messages:
    15
    Car:
    vw golf TDI 2001
    Hi Yuri,

    Thanks for your reply..... I had no idea that the IP & injectors were different....so do you recommend swapping the injectors but leaving the same IP? What issues might I have have if I leave the same injectors? (poorer fuel economy? performance?)...also any chance you could provide more detail on what is "tricky" with swapping out injector #3? Do I need any special tools to do the injector swap?


    Thanks for the tip on the timing belt....yes I have changed the timing belt, water pump, rollers, tensioner, and stretch bolts & used the DIY on this forum, it was great!!!.... Also, I have the new clutch & flywheel & clutch fork which I will be installing as well, thanks!

    Is there anything else you'd recommend replacing on an engine with 160K miles prior to installation?

    Thanks in advance!

    brian
  4. YMZ

    YMZ Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2010
    Messages:
    1,905
    Car:
    Jetta 2003, Golf 2001
    Location:
    Latitude 44.407959, longitude -76.018369.
    I'd definitely want the injectors from the manual - although chances are the nozzles could use replacement anyway... The only difference between the # 3 injectors is the shape of the connector... you could just splice, or you could get fancy and push out the pins in the connectors and swap the connector shells (that requires a bit of specialized technique...)... Please remember to get new copper sealing rings for the injectors, and don't over-tighten the retainer bolts (15 Ft*Lbs only... - a good routine for this is to use your injector puller and give the injector a little "love-tap" with a hammer before the final tightening...) Depending on your budget (I know you're rolling in dough these days... who isn't???), I'd consider sending the injectors to someone like Franko6 on this site or "drivbiwire" on the TDIclub for new nozzles and balancing... (be sure to let them know that you have an 11mm pump... you'll probably want to get a "chip" (tune) eventually, followed by a bigger turbo... etc... slippery slope, mod-wise...)

    As for other "little" maintenance chores while the engine's out... take a look inside the intake manifold to see if it's clogged and needs cleaning... (you'll need to remove the EGR valve assembly)... Much easier to remove and replace with the engine out...

    All the best,

    Yuri
  5. briandownunda

    briandownunda New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2011
    Messages:
    15
    Car:
    vw golf TDI 2001
    Hi Yuri,

    When you say injection puller, sounds like a special tool, correct? Do you have a reference to the tool? Is it required to pull the injectors?

    When you say #3, are you referring to cylinder #3 injector, or to the general number of all of the injectors?

    Since I have both complete engines, I am having trouble envisioning what is tricky with this swap, I guess I'll have to wait til I get home & look at the engines to see why.

    Also, I am mostly interested in fuel economy, & less in performance....should I be able to get the "stock" manual fuel economy by swapping injectors and using the auto IP?...or will my fuel economy be worse? Is the chip tune something I am going to need b/c of the difference between the IP and the injectors?

    Thanks in advance!

    Brian
  6. YMZ

    YMZ Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2010
    Messages:
    1,905
    Car:
    Jetta 2003, Golf 2001
    Location:
    Latitude 44.407959, longitude -76.018369.
    Sometimes the injectors are really stuck in the cylinder head... User "Wingnut" on the TDIclub put together something to pull out the injectors ( http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=87650 ) and later MetalNerd made a commercial product inspired by his: tool 1818 at metalnerd.com... Also TDIclub User "runonbeer" has also gotten into the injector puller business... see runonbeer.com - but you can make your own... the nut that threads into the top of the injectors is a M14 x 1.5... (also used at the top of the front struts, so if you've ever replaced those, you may have the old ones sitting around, as they're supposed to be replaced...)

    The Number 3 injector is the "tall" one that has the sensor for letting the computer know the precise timing of the injection...

    As for fuel economy... your right foot is what will determine how that works out... (BTW: you don't need to swap the injectors right away unless you're planning to get rid of the "dead" motor... you'll see an improvement in performance, and larger injectors WILL give you better economy - until you start "enjoying" the power...

    All the best,

    Yuri

    PS: you don't "need" a chip tune... but... the car drives so much better...

    PPS: if you really don't see yourself going for a bit more performance in the future, you should transfer your standard 10mm injection pump over to this engine and sell the 11mm... they're always in demand...
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 15, 2012
  7. briandownunda

    briandownunda New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2011
    Messages:
    15
    Car:
    vw golf TDI 2001
    Hi Yuri,

    Since I am pulling out the old engine and trans together, I will be in need of some new engine mount bolts. Can you tell me all of the parts I need to replace for this operation & recommend who/where to get them?

    Thanks in advance!

    Brian
  8. YMZ

    YMZ Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2010
    Messages:
    1,905
    Car:
    Jetta 2003, Golf 2001
    Location:
    Latitude 44.407959, longitude -76.018369.
    Depends if you're taking the engine/transmission out the top or the bottom... you loosen different bolts... the only "must replace" bolts (other than those involved in the timing belt change - particularly the one holding the large idler) are the vertical mount bolts on either side... (Many people like to replace the 3 horizontal lower engine mount (= "bracket") bolts as well... you shouldn't need to remove the 3 horizontal lower transmission mount bolts - those must be replaced if loosened...)

    The 16-mm-headed vertical mount bolts are p/n N10516702.
    The 18-mm-headed vertical mount bolts are p/n N10209605 or N10209603.

    Boraparts or IDparts or worldimpex or 1stVWparts or even your friendly local VW dealer should be able to provide them at no particularly onerous cost (unless you haven't bought your timing belt kit yet... in that case, go with one of the 1st three or Dieselgeek or Kermatdi...)

    Good luck,

    Yuri
  9. briandownunda

    briandownunda New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2011
    Messages:
    15
    Car:
    vw golf TDI 2001
    Hi Yuri,

    I am removing the engine/trans thru the bottom. How many of each bolt will I need?....also, do I need to replace any of the "dogbone" mount bolts?

    Thanks

    brian
  10. YMZ

    YMZ Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2010
    Messages:
    1,905
    Car:
    Jetta 2003, Golf 2001
    Location:
    Latitude 44.407959, longitude -76.018369.
    No... the rear "dogbone" mount bolts are no longer listed as "must replace"... (but be sure not to over-torque them...)

    As for the engine and transmission mount bolts... you should in principle be leaving the (upper) motor and transmission mounts in place, so you'll only need the four 18-mm-headed M12x1.5 - 65 mm Grade 10.9 bolts...

    Yuri.
  11. briandownunda

    briandownunda New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2011
    Messages:
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    Car:
    vw golf TDI 2001
    thanks very much for the info Yuri!
  12. briandownunda

    briandownunda New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2011
    Messages:
    15
    Car:
    vw golf TDI 2001
    Hi Yuri,

    I now have my 2001 Golf TDI manual all put back together and running. I am currently running with the IP and injectors from the Auto ALH engine and it is running fine. The next thing I would like to consider is what can I do to improve fuel economy. I would consider sending out injectors for a rebuild.

    So do you recommend that I use the injectors from the "manual" ALH engine? If so, if my emphasis is to be on fuel economy, how/where do you recommend that I have them rebuilt?

    Also, is there any kind of "chip tune" optimization that can add to improved fuel economy?

    Any links on this subject would be greatly appreciated as well!

    Thanks in advance for any recommendations!

    Cheers,

    Brian

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