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2010 Golf TDI 60-75 mph vibration/shaking

91K views 104 replies 24 participants last post by  Vwman2015 
#1 ·
I'm about a month into ownership of my used 2010 Golf TDi 6 speed manual and am still trying fix (with the dealer) a vibration that occurs between 60-75 mph. The dealer has been great in trying to help, but unfortunatley hasn't nailed the problem yet. The car has 21k miles on it. This is my first VW, but I've owned/own several Audi's and older Porsche's. I like to DIY and am used to quirky problems but this one has me stumped!

To decribe the vibration, it comes on around 60 mph, peaks around 66 mph and peaks again around 71 mph. It's in the steering wheel and the seat, it's pretty much all over the chassis. The amplitude of the vibration is dependent on the load. For example, going up a hill in 6th gear, adding throttle will amplify the vibration. In addition, on a level road in 6th gear, lightly and slowly modulating the pedal, staying +/-2 mph around one of the peak vibration speeds (say +/-2mph around 66 mph) I can keep the vibration steady. The vibration is still very noticeable between 60-75 mph, and spending 2 hours a day on the highway, it needs to go away :)

I've also tried putting the car into neutral starting at 75 mph and coasting down to 60 mph, the vibration is still there, but certainly less. In terms of sounds, there are no clunking, popping or banging sounds in the suspension, even if I drive a bit hard trying to amplify any issues. There is a sound that seems to oscillate with the vibrations, but it's hard to describe and it's very light. There is certainly somthing "not right" about the sound though.

Here's whats been tried/checked so far:

1. I've tried a set of 18" OEM BBS rims with 1 year old winter tires, a recently purchased set of 18" RS4 reps with Yokohamas, the OEM 16" rims/tires off our A4 and the stock 17" rims/tires(Hankook) that came with the Golf. All sets are smooth as butter on our A4 but on the Golf the shaking persists. These rims are all Audi/VW centerbore and offset so there's not wheel/hub mating issues. After trying four sets on the Golf, I'm convinced the tires/rims aren't to blame.

2. The dealer replaced the left front drive axle citing that it had a little play, didn't fix the issue at all. They also re-balanced the factory 17" wheels, no improvement. In fact after this "fix" my wheel now points slightly to the left because they probably disconnected a control arm to make room for the axle removal, then didn't bother to do an alignment afterwards.

3. I checked the tightness of the large drive axle bolts in the center of each hub, they are tight.

4. I put the car on ramps, took off the belly pan and checked every bolt I could get my hands on (control arms, ball joints, anti-roll bar, sub-frame, etc...) While underneath I also slowly rotated the tires to see if the drive axles had any strange movement. Everything seemed fine.

5. I put the car on jack stands and did the 12-6, 3-9 O'Clock pulling/pushing on the tires to see if a wheel bearing was loose or if the tie rods were sloppy, nothing I could detect. They sure shouldn't be sloppy with 20k miles on the clock.

6. Checked the motor mounts, kind of, not really sure how to check these. What I did was put the car in 1st gear on a level surface and pushed it forward and backward. The engine would rock, but I have no idea what is acceptable. Whats the likelihood an engine mount is bad at such a young age?The dog bone engine mount underneath looked fine, bolts were tight.


What else could it be? Out of round hub? Bad flywheel/harmonic balancer? Something in the transmission? Upper strut mounts? Satan?

Not much attention has been paid to the rear end yet, but I never suspected it given the depedancy on throttle position.

I'm really at a loss, and if I'm at a loss, I don't have high hopes for the dealer. Unless they have someone with plenty of experience, that would just so happen to know from the symptoms and feeling when driving the car, I'll probably be going back for months to come as they slowly replace parts.

If there's anyone here in central CT that thinks they could figure it out after driving it a bit (or if you can recommend a shop with VW "Voodoo") any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
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#77 · (Edited by Moderator)
Joe.dk.

1st, thanks much for posting all of those videos!

After looking at your DMF and my DMF, and considering what HBarlow said, I don't believe the DMF has much to do with it (add to that that my DMF was (supposedly) replaced, with no fix in my issue).

The most interesting video you had that rang a bell with me, is the 4th and 5th gear run with both axles free-wheeling (no tires). That somewhat rhythmic vibration/clunking/clanking is at exactly the sound and rate at which I feel vibrations when running down the interstate (one of my 1st videos on the issue here, you can hear it). Since I took that video, I've driven over 25k miles. Seriously, I just wish it would snap, crack or destroy itself so I can be done with it :)

The question is, what would cause the entire engine assembly to shake like that, when there's no load on the drivetrain? Is it because there is no load on the drivetrain? Is the DMF and all it's happy little springs going into "unloaded resonance"?

I know when I had the front of my car up in the air with no wheels and put it into gear, I couldn't touch the throttle in anything above 4th gear primarily because of the sounds it made and for fear it would hurt something further.

Do you have any experience diagnosing differentials?

bah, now I'm all unhappy, time for some therapy! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-iuty7175A
 
#78 ·
The problem is caused by mechanical rotation at a certain rpm related to vehicle speed not engine speed. You've eliminated the engine and transmission by shifting to neutral while in the vibration range. You've also eliminated wheels and tires by trying several sets.

I would suspect axle shafts or brake discs but brake discs are relatively small and light in weight so they don't seem likely as a cause. I assume braking is smooth because you haven't mentioned shaking when brakes are applied.

What else is rotating at highway speed other than axle shafts? I don't know of anything else that could cause it. I think one of your posts stated you feel it in the steering wheel and chassis so it is almost certainly caused by a front wheel. Perhaps someone has struck a curb with one of the front wheels slightly bending an axle.

Can you get the dealer to lift the car and front wheels slightly off the shop floor and run the engine and drivetrain up to the speed range where you feel the vibration? Perhaps you could identify a wheel and tire assembly that is hopping.
Thanks for the suggestions HBarlow.

I did replace the front brake discs, and as you suspected that didn't help.

I've also had the front end off the ground, with jacks under the control arms and as close to the wheels as possible to keep the drive axles at an almost normal angle. I can't run the car past 40mph because it really won't let me (either electronics or the ABS gets angry since the back wheels aren't spinning). What I really need to do, is get it on a rolling dyno, so I can see with my eyes what is shaking.
 
#79 · (Edited by Moderator)
I'll start in the reverse order :)

I've also had the front end off the ground, with jacks under the control arms and as close to the wheels as possible to keep the drive axles at an almost normal angle. I can't run the car past 40mph because it really won't let me (either electronics or the ABS gets angry since the back wheels aren't spinning).

I'm experiencing the same problem. When trying to accelerate the engine is shacking as hell and stops suddenly. Looks very much like the brakes are applied ( even thought the ESP is disabled). You can see this in the video where the cam is under the car... and at some point the engine shakes and stops. Let's say it normal... and the ABS/ESP/TC somehow intervenes. ( this could also be the differential being blocked in someway :confused:)

Do you have any experience diagnosing differentials?

this is kind of funny. I had a similar issue with a Opel Vectra some years ago.. and after much troubleshooting (over one year) and replacing much of the drivetrain, I've ended up dismantle the gearbox to examine the differential. I've replaced the bearings and put everything in place. The shaking went away, but part of the noise was still there. I should have replaced the differential assembly, but was so tiered of that car.. and sold it. :eek:

This time I simply refused to believe that is can be same issue.... not again.



I know when I had the front of my car up in the air with no wheels and put it into gear, I couldn't touch the throttle in anything above 4th gear primarily because of the sounds it made and for fear it would hurt something further.

I have the exact same sound :annoyed

The question is, what would cause the entire engine assembly to shake like that, when there's no load on the drivetrain? Is it because there is no load on the drivetrain? Is the DMF and all it's happy little springs going into "unloaded resonance"?

I've looked around at found out the the problem is not that uncommon. The axle holding the planetary gears coming loose and in some cases even braking through the bellhouse ( gearbox wall)



source : http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4165769



since I took those videos, I've replaced the DMF.. then ( like always..) for a couple of days the problem went away...just to reappear like never was changed. So... I'm back to square 1... and beginning to think that the only solution is a new differential/ gearbox. The VW gearbox is a PITA if you only need to replace the differential.. so I'm looking after a refurbished gearbox. (0A4)
 
#80 ·
You'd think a fresh DMF would make it worse since it is "stiffer" and would transfer torque more readily. It certainly didn't help my case just as in yours.

Do you hear anything strange when moving at parking lot speeds with a tight turning radius? Some folks have commented this can highlight issues with the differential since it's two output shafts are forced to rotate at different speeds.

How about the transmission oil? Did you see any metal particles in it? This is one thing I haven't tried yet, primarily since my car is too young to worry about replacing the oil.
 
#81 ·
the gearbox oil did not present any noticeable metal particles... only very very few and small in size ( microscopic).
the one thing that disturbed me was that there ware only 1.5 liters of the old oil.. so it looks like they filled it up to the filler plug, not as described in the TSB ( trough the reverse sensor ). I think the fresh oil cures some of the noise and I will try to wait so see if the vibration reappears.

I still haven't replaced the dogbone (torque arm) bushings. I bought them, but did not find the time to do it. I'll try it this week.
 
#82 ·
the gearbox oil did not present any noticeable metal particles... only very very few and small in size ( microscopic).
the one thing that disturbed me was that there ware only 1.5 liters of the old oil.. so it looks like they filled it up to the filler plug, not as described in the TSB ( trough the reverse sensor ). I think the fresh oil cures some of the noise and I will try to wait so see if the vibration reappears.

I still haven't replaced the dogbone (torque arm) bushings. I bought them, but did not find the time to do it. I'll try it this week.
I'm going to look at my oil this weekend and will report back as well.
 
#83 ·
any updates? did you change the transmission oil? did you find anything?

I've replaced the dog bone bushings last week. The first impression is that the car feels more firm, but the vibration is still there.
I'm beginning to think that my issue is not drive train related but is in fact the engine shaking under load.

If you take a look at my video where the engine in running in neutral, the engine is shaking in the same harmonic pattern as is does in the 4th or 5th gear.
 
#85 ·
any updates? did you change the transmission oil? did you find anything?

I've replaced the dog bone bushings last week. The first impression is that the car feels more firm, but the vibration is still there.
I'm beginning to think that my issue is not drive train related but is in fact the engine shaking under load.

If you take a look at my video where the engine in running in neutral, the engine is shaking in the same harmonic pattern as is does in the 4th or 5th gear.
Joe.dk:

My fluid was at the right level and clean, so that's not the issue.

Interesting you talk about the engine being the source, it might be worthwhile for us to check that fuel delivery to each cylinder is the right amount. If a cylinder wasn't firing with same power as the others, I supposed it could cause the vibration. For me though, the fundamental frequency is still there, even riding in neutral, so I have a different issue.
 
#90 · (Edited by Moderator)
Is the vibration all the time at the target speed? On any road?

My car has a mini vibration in the steering wheel, from 55 through 75, only sometimes. When there, it ranges from 1/32" to 1/8" wiggle of the steering wheel. Not on new concrete. I have just gone through an alignment, had things rechecked, new tires, new shocks and struts. The vibration has been around for a while, and still here.

Now wondering about the lower control arm rear bushings.
.
 
#91 ·
@Type_TDI...

Have you made any headway on resolving the issue? One thing I have thought of is a possible bad shock in the front end. I have tried all the usual bearing/tie rod/ball joint inspections and everything seems nice and tight. The only thing I DID notice, was some oil leakage from my front shocks. My thought is that at 65mph or greater, the rotating mass of the wheel (no matter how well they balance it), can cause some vibration because the worn shock can't "soak up" the forces like a good one can. Another thing I have noticed that points me in this direction is while driving on a road other day that had JUST been paved, I got it up to 65+ and the vibration wasn't there. New pavement, while it's rolled and tamped, still has a bit of "softness" to it. So my thought is that it was helping soak up the vibration a bit, taking some work away from the worn shock.

It's speculation for me, but this is the best I can think of right now. I will add, that I just had brand new tires installed (Continental PureContact, V rated) and this did nothing for the vibration.
 
#92 ·
@Type_TDI...

Have you made any headway on resolving the issue? One thing I have thought of is a possible bad shock in the front end. I have tried all the usual bearing/tie rod/ball joint inspections and everything seems nice and tight. The only thing I DID notice, was some oil leakage from my front shocks. My thought is that at 65mph or greater, the rotating mass of the wheel (no matter how well they balance it), can cause some vibration because the worn shock can't "soak up" the forces like a good one can. Another thing I have noticed that points me in this direction is while driving on a road other day that had JUST been paved, I got it up to 65+ and the vibration wasn't there. New pavement, while it's rolled and tamped, still has a bit of "softness" to it. So my thought is that it was helping soak up the vibration a bit, taking some work away from the worn shock.

It's speculation for me, but this is the best I can think of right now. I will add, that I just had brand new tires installed (Continental PureContact, V rated) and this did nothing for the vibration.
YukonLT,

If you have oil coming out of a shock to the point it's run down the sides, it's toast, or nearly toast. Good time to get a set of Bilsteins on there :)

I've certainly looked at my front shocks looking for oil leaks, but have never taken them out to see if they had any gas left. FWIW, my 2010 has German made Sachs shocks. Also, the rear shocks were replaced trying to track down a clunk which turned out to be bad caliper guide pins (I think there's a reason VW switched from TRW to Bosch calipers in 2011).

I bought a set of front shocks of a fellow TDI'er with 19k miles on them, but have yet to find time to install them. When you mentioned the variances on different road surfaces, that's something I've experienced as well. For instance, there's a stretch of highway I travel daily that is concrete and very smooth. It also has fine grooves that pull the car slightly and on that surface, the car feels smooth. There's also a stretch of new asphalt, on that surface, the vibration is most pronounced. On the asphalt I can modulate the vibration with the throttle, but regardless of throttle there's always a little vibration there.

Just this past week I mounted a small, cheapo, waterproof USB camera in the engine bay. It was mounted to the body and was pointed straight at the engine. I wanted to see if the engine assembly resonated at the same frequency as the vibration since my thought has been that the transmission (6MT) or differential was bad and putting different amounts of torque to the left and right wheels. To my surprise, the engine didn't move with the vibration. It simply moved a bit forward or backward depending on the throttle (normal). So, if you see a blue golf with wires coming out of the hood and into the cabin, you found me :)

The next step is to mount the camera and point it at the front wheels or control arms. If i see a wheel hopping, I'll be pretty excited to have found the issue.

Sorry to hear the new tires didn't help. As was mentioned in previous posts, the only thing that seems to help my issue was any tire with a bigger sidewall. In that case, the bigger sidewall is just masking the real (unknown) issue.
 
#94 ·
YukonLT,

If you have oil coming out of a shock to the point it's run down the sides, it's toast, or nearly toast. Good time to get a set of Bilsteins on there :)

I've certainly looked at my front shocks looking for oil leaks, but have never taken them out to see if they had any gas left. FWIW, my 2010 has German made Sachs shocks. Also, the rear shocks were replaced trying to track down a clunk which turned out to be bad caliper guide pins (I think there's a reason VW switched from TRW to Bosch calipers in 2011).

I bought a set of front shocks of a fellow TDI'er with 19k miles on them, but have yet to find time to install them. When you mentioned the variances on different road surfaces, that's something I've experienced as well. For instance, there's a stretch of highway I travel daily that is concrete and very smooth. It also has fine grooves that pull the car slightly and on that surface, the car feels smooth. There's also a stretch of new asphalt, on that surface, the vibration is most pronounced. On the asphalt I can modulate the vibration with the throttle, but regardless of throttle there's always a little vibration there.

Just this past week I mounted a small, cheapo, waterproof USB camera in the engine bay. It was mounted to the body and was pointed straight at the engine. I wanted to see if the engine assembly resonated at the same frequency as the vibration since my thought has been that the transmission (6MT) or differential was bad and putting different amounts of torque to the left and right wheels. To my surprise, the engine didn't move with the vibration. It simply moved a bit forward or backward depending on the throttle (normal). So, if you see a blue golf with wires coming out of the hood and into the cabin, you found me :)

The next step is to mount the camera and point it at the front wheels or control arms. If i see a wheel hopping, I'll be pretty excited to have found the issue.

Sorry to hear the new tires didn't help. As was mentioned in previous posts, the only thing that seems to help my issue was any tire with a bigger sidewall. In that case, the bigger sidewall is just masking the real (unknown) issue.
It was just a little bit of oil that I noticed, nothing running down the side or anything like that. I did the "bounce" test and it seems to be ok, but that's not very scientific. I have 92,000 on the car right now, and I'm not sure what the life expectancy of the stock shocks are. The car doesn't handle any different than the day it was new honestly. I have always kept up the maintenance, and kept the car nice and clean. People never believe me that it almost has 100,000 on it. My goal is to keep it looking great past 300,000! :)

On a side note, I have my tires rotated and balanced last night and the installer did notice a slight bend in one of my front rims. That's about the only thing left I can attribute to the vibration now...but I'm sure not convinced still. We shall see I guess...
 
#96 ·
Just a quick comment - T3 touaregs have been having a similar issue. Some were fixed by lowering the wheel lug bolt torque. They use 130 ft-lb so not quite the same thing though and I don't know how low is safe for these wheels.
Thanks Chitty, I torque to about 90ft lbs. I'm pretty nuts about wheel torque, only because you always get folks with an impact gun torquing them to 2000 ft lbs :)

I was OCD enough about it to write (90 ft l a max!) under the caps of some old 16" Audi rims ;)
 
#97 ·
I wanted to update this.

I hit a deer a couple weeks ago with my Golf :(. But, before that I started thinking more about the vibration. Some people have said the guide pins in the brakes can get corroded or "stuck" so it won't release the pads fully and cause the rotor to warp ever so slightly. This small warp really would only be felt at higher speeds it seems, IMO. Well, I got my Golf back from the body shop it was at for two weeks and the brakes were horrible. It felt like the rotors got worse from just sitting and not being used, there was some pulsation at low speeds when I hit the brakes. Before I hit the deer, the pulsation could only be felt if I hit the brakes at 75+ mph. So, I changed my rotors and pads in the front and low behold, absolutely NO more vibration in the steering wheel now. So, it was my front rotors all along :bangshead
 
#98 ·
It was just a little bit of oil that I noticed, nothing running down the side or anything like that. I did the "bounce" test and it seems to be ok, but that's not very scientific. I have 92,000 on the car right now...
If any oil escapes, then the gas is most definitely escaped before the oil.

Have you check the rotors for run out (bent/wobble)?
 
#100 ·
Folks, just wanted to say thanks for all the suggestions so far and that my saga is over since the car is out of my garage (bought an older A4). Good thing is, several folks in this thread did figure out how to get rid of certain vibration issues.

I already miss the diesel economy and torque and will probably own another someday... Just bad luck on this last one.

I'll be lurking around and will certainly be watching the MK7 section!
 
#101 ·
Hi Type_TDI,

I'm just wondering if you ever worked out this issue? I just bought a 2007 VW Golf TDI today and believe it or not it is vibrating when I drive over 100kph. Not a constant vibration/shuddering but it comes and goes sort of in a pattern. And NOT in the steering at all. Just the seat/chassis.
But I don't have the manuel, I got the triptronic auto. I have no idea how to check anything myself but I would like to have an idea of which direction to point the mechanics in because they always rip me off thinking I know nothing at all! Grrrr.

Ps. This feed had me laughing so hard at your 'satan' comment!!!
 
#102 ·
Hi Type_TDI,

I'm just wondering if you ever worked out this issue? I just bought a 2007 VW Golf TDI today and believe it or not it is vibrating when I drive over 100kph. Not a constant vibration/shuddering but it comes and goes sort of in a pattern. And NOT in the steering at all. Just the seat/chassis.
But I don't have the manuel, I got the triptronic auto. I have no idea how to check anything myself but I would like to have an idea of which direction to point the mechanics in because they always rip me off thinking I know nothing at all! Grrrr.

Ps. This feed had me laughing so hard at your 'satan' comment!!!
Try driving at "shaky" speed and gently pulling the rear hand brake. If it shakes more, it's the rear disc brakes. It's an easy diagnosis! ;)
 
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