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2010 Golf TDI 60-75 mph vibration/shaking

91K views 104 replies 24 participants last post by  Vwman2015 
#1 ·
I'm about a month into ownership of my used 2010 Golf TDi 6 speed manual and am still trying fix (with the dealer) a vibration that occurs between 60-75 mph. The dealer has been great in trying to help, but unfortunatley hasn't nailed the problem yet. The car has 21k miles on it. This is my first VW, but I've owned/own several Audi's and older Porsche's. I like to DIY and am used to quirky problems but this one has me stumped!

To decribe the vibration, it comes on around 60 mph, peaks around 66 mph and peaks again around 71 mph. It's in the steering wheel and the seat, it's pretty much all over the chassis. The amplitude of the vibration is dependent on the load. For example, going up a hill in 6th gear, adding throttle will amplify the vibration. In addition, on a level road in 6th gear, lightly and slowly modulating the pedal, staying +/-2 mph around one of the peak vibration speeds (say +/-2mph around 66 mph) I can keep the vibration steady. The vibration is still very noticeable between 60-75 mph, and spending 2 hours a day on the highway, it needs to go away :)

I've also tried putting the car into neutral starting at 75 mph and coasting down to 60 mph, the vibration is still there, but certainly less. In terms of sounds, there are no clunking, popping or banging sounds in the suspension, even if I drive a bit hard trying to amplify any issues. There is a sound that seems to oscillate with the vibrations, but it's hard to describe and it's very light. There is certainly somthing "not right" about the sound though.

Here's whats been tried/checked so far:

1. I've tried a set of 18" OEM BBS rims with 1 year old winter tires, a recently purchased set of 18" RS4 reps with Yokohamas, the OEM 16" rims/tires off our A4 and the stock 17" rims/tires(Hankook) that came with the Golf. All sets are smooth as butter on our A4 but on the Golf the shaking persists. These rims are all Audi/VW centerbore and offset so there's not wheel/hub mating issues. After trying four sets on the Golf, I'm convinced the tires/rims aren't to blame.

2. The dealer replaced the left front drive axle citing that it had a little play, didn't fix the issue at all. They also re-balanced the factory 17" wheels, no improvement. In fact after this "fix" my wheel now points slightly to the left because they probably disconnected a control arm to make room for the axle removal, then didn't bother to do an alignment afterwards.

3. I checked the tightness of the large drive axle bolts in the center of each hub, they are tight.

4. I put the car on ramps, took off the belly pan and checked every bolt I could get my hands on (control arms, ball joints, anti-roll bar, sub-frame, etc...) While underneath I also slowly rotated the tires to see if the drive axles had any strange movement. Everything seemed fine.

5. I put the car on jack stands and did the 12-6, 3-9 O'Clock pulling/pushing on the tires to see if a wheel bearing was loose or if the tie rods were sloppy, nothing I could detect. They sure shouldn't be sloppy with 20k miles on the clock.

6. Checked the motor mounts, kind of, not really sure how to check these. What I did was put the car in 1st gear on a level surface and pushed it forward and backward. The engine would rock, but I have no idea what is acceptable. Whats the likelihood an engine mount is bad at such a young age?The dog bone engine mount underneath looked fine, bolts were tight.


What else could it be? Out of round hub? Bad flywheel/harmonic balancer? Something in the transmission? Upper strut mounts? Satan?

Not much attention has been paid to the rear end yet, but I never suspected it given the depedancy on throttle position.

I'm really at a loss, and if I'm at a loss, I don't have high hopes for the dealer. Unless they have someone with plenty of experience, that would just so happen to know from the symptoms and feeling when driving the car, I'll probably be going back for months to come as they slowly replace parts.

If there's anyone here in central CT that thinks they could figure it out after driving it a bit (or if you can recommend a shop with VW "Voodoo") any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
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#53 ·
I believe I have the same issue as others has described here. My 2010 Golf TDI is a 6-speed manual and has 50,000 miles. I recently installed new aftermarket rims and tires (same factory tire, but slightly wider 17x8 rims). The noise was even more pronounced after this. I had the tires and rims roadforce balanced with no change. Then I ended up swapping my new tires to new set of VW 17" Goal accessory rims. The noise is not as amplified, but still present. The noise was about the same with the original 17" Porto rims and worn tires. So, its seems that the type and/or size of the wheel rim can either amplify or diminish the noise. When accelerating under light throttle there is a very noticeable cowl shake and seat vibration between 40-50 mph, along with a faint droning/oscillating noise that amplifies with speed. (The steering wheel does not shake, only the cowl/dash and the seats). Above 50mph, the shaking goes away, then the noise gets loudest at 70mph on the highway. The noise "seems" to emanate from the right front, but I cannot be certain. I've had the front wheels off and inspected the axles, wheel bearings, and brakes and all seems normal. I originally suspected a wheel bearing or an axle, but based on input from this forum, wheel bearings and axles have done nothing to fix the problem. I also changed the fuel filter based on other threads and this has not solved the problem. I'm suspecting an issue with the flywheel or clutch plate at this point. I'm not going to the dealer for a diagnosis, since the outcome is usually the same - throw a bunch of parts at it and see what works. In this case, it doesn't seem like new bearings, axles, mounts, and tires have worked for anybody. Does anyone have any new input or a fix regarding this issue?
 
#54 ·
I believe I have the same issue as others has described here. My 2010 Golf TDI is a 6-speed manual and has 50,000 miles. I recently installed new aftermarket rims and tires (same factory tire, but slightly wider 17x8 rims). The noise was even more pronounced after this. I had the tires and rims roadforce balanced with no change. Then I ended up swapping my new tires to new set of VW 17" Goal accessory rims. The noise is not as amplified, but still present. The noise was about the same with the original 17" Porto rims and worn tires. So, its seems that the type and/or size of the wheel rim can either amplify or diminish the noise. When accelerating under light throttle there is a very noticeable cowl shake and seat vibration between 40-50 mph, along with a faint droning/oscillating noise that amplifies with speed. (The steering wheel does not shake, only the cowl/dash and the seats). Above 50mph, the shaking goes away, then the noise gets loudest at 70mph on the highway. The noise "seems" to emanate from the right front, but I cannot be certain. I've had the front wheels off and inspected the axles, wheel bearings, and brakes and all seems normal. I originally suspected a wheel bearing or an axle, but based on input from this forum, wheel bearings and axles have done nothing to fix the problem. I also changed the fuel filter based on other threads and this has not solved the problem. I'm suspecting an issue with the flywheel or clutch plate at this point. I'm not going to the dealer for a diagnosis, since the outcome is usually the same - throw a bunch of parts at it and see what works. In this case, it doesn't seem like new bearings, axles, mounts, and tires have worked for anybody. Does anyone have any new input or a fix regarding this issue?
Denster, I'm taking my car in to an independant shop this weekend since my syptoms are getting more noticeable. This weekend I thought I heard the usual noise you'd hear from a DMF when it's failing (at idle, in neutral). We shall see!

Have you owned the car since new? I'm asking because I've always suspected the PO of my car did something...
 
#55 ·
Yes, I have owned my car since new. What's peculiar is the shudder at 40-50mph. This has to be rotational mass and is directly related to vehicle speed, and not engine speed. I've gently applied the brakes during the shudder with no affect on the condition, but the shudder fades as soon the throttle is released. As for the highway drone/vibration, pushing in the clutch at 70mph or placing the trans in neutral has no affect on the intensity or sound. So, between the shudder at 40-50, and the drone at 60-70mph, I don't know what to make of it. All I know is I'm very frustrated at this point. I love most everything about my Golf, but this is becoming a deal breaker for long-term ownership, especially if it ends up being a DMF failure.
 
#56 ·
Hi Guys,

I also suffered bad virbration and noise on my car and after a lot of searching found that I had "sawtooth' like heel-toe wear pattern on my rear tires at 40000km. Its not very noticible with the eye but can be felt with the hands. Changed the tires to new ones and the virbration was gone.

I know you have swopped tires and that did not resolve the issue - just adding my solution to my problem, maybe it helps...
 
#57 ·
Yes, I have owned my car since new. What's peculiar is the shudder at 40-50mph. This has to be rotational mass and is directly related to vehicle speed, and not engine speed. I've gently applied the brakes during the shudder with no affect on the condition, but the shudder fades as soon the throttle is released. As for the highway drone/vibration, pushing in the clutch at 70mph or placing the trans in neutral has no affect on the intensity or sound. So, between the shudder at 40-50, and the drone at 60-70mph, I don't know what to make of it. All I know is I'm very frustrated at this point. I love most everything about my Golf, but this is becoming a deal breaker for long-term ownership, especially if it ends up being a DMF failure.
Ditto your symptoms. At 70 mph if you're in 4th and get on/off the gas, do you get a ridiculous amount of driveline lash? I get enough that you can see the tachometer jump up or down. I know there's a bit of lash due to the DMF's nature, but this is bonkers.

After my trip to Speedsport tuning here in CT they were able to diagnose a leaking rear shock and that my winter tires were feathering. That day we didn't unfortunately feel the full harshness vibration (it's winter and temperature matters).

On another topic I had my first "cold start issue" due to the intercooler ice/water BS. Apparently the TSB was never applied so I have to now worry about my engine eating water.

I'm done with this car. I'm okay fixing all the small annoyances since I like working on cars, but the vibration/shaking crap is intolerable. especially given that I spend 10 hours a week in it.

FYI, for any folks near NW CT Speedsport is great if you need anything done to a German (or probably any car). I've seen VW's, tons of Porsches and Audis around their shop.
 
#58 ·
Well, I'm not quite done with this car :eek:

Today I decided to take a look behind the starter to see if I could tell if anything is wrong with the DMF. Take a look at this video and let me know what you guy's think. To me it looks almost comically loose, but this is the 1st one I've every looked at so I'm hoping more experienced folks can chime in.

The car is in 4th gear and I'm turning the drivers side wheel back and forth. There are three videos, each taken after rotating the engine by hand a couple times.

http://youtu.be/a8RoJQIIc_4
http://youtu.be/e5he4wJp5lw
http://youtu.be/rjCn62x-mLI
 
#61 · (Edited by Moderator)
Well, she's going into the dealer tomorrow morning, they looked at the videos and it was enough for them to order a new DMF. I'm hesitant to say it, but I'm hoping all is well soon!

I've got to say that although I've gone to this dealership several times and they've not nailed the problem, they do keep trying.

Hopefully I can take a few pictures of it so we can all see what went wrong or how it failed.
 
#62 ·
They replaced the DMF and did a great job this time buttoning everything up, no belly pan screws missing :).

Unfortunately, besides better clutch feel, the vibration is still there.

My transmission is borked, there's nothing else it could be at this point. I'm guessing the hosed transmission caused the DMF to fail prematurely as well.

Ah, should I give up? How do I prove the transmission is bad? At least with the DMF you could test it visually...
 
#66 ·
So, it went to the dealer for a week, their conclusion: the tires I have are bad. Lets keep in mind this is the same dealer that took tires off of a new Golf in the lot, put them on my car, then acknowledged a vibration. They recommended to switch from my current winter tires and put the stock back on before they would look at it again.

Anyways, and on another topic. You remember those videos I took a few posts ago of the dual mass flywheel showing how bad it was? Well, since my car seemed to be NO better after they replaced the DMF, I decided to have another video taken.

Keeping in mind this is supposed to be a new DMF and that it only has 1.5k miles on it since it was "replaced". What the heck is going on here? Can a DMF go bad in 1.5k miles of highway driving? :panic: These people are going to send me to the loony bin :panic:

In the video it's in 4th gear, one wheel blocked, the other being rotated by me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=newCdB4wQQE

Here's the work order with part numbers, completed about 1.5k miles ago:



A couple more videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqKYdDz9p-E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfGH896a_gY
 
#68 ·
Sorry but :pukerofl

Just show them the video....easy enough to find videos of DMF on youtube.
I take it you think it's bad :)?

I called them today and they said to call VW USA, they didn't know how else to help me. I also mentioned that the DMF looks bad to me (again) and to ask a technician what the allowable play was. I just can't imagine that they would lie and not put a new one in...

Another thought crossed my mind, could a knackered clutch cause this? I'd bet anything they didn't even check the clutch assembly.

I'm very close to getting the valeo SMF conversion and giving it a try. Any one want to help me install it?

Does all this black stuff on the starter mean anything to you? (Try not to be envious of my "INCREDIBLE SURROUND" stereo system in the background). That's a real, live, tape deck on that puppy!

 
#71 ·
If you do go to a SMF, please update this thread with the results! I would like to know if it takes care of your on/off throttle driveline slack, and if it makes bad noises at idle. There isn't much info out there on SMF conversions to TDIs with the 6MTs, probley because it is $900-$1200 for the parts!
I came "this" close to going with the Valeo kit last week then decided to hold off for a bit. If I go that route I will for sure let everyone know.
 
#72 ·
Yes, I have owned my car since new. What's peculiar is the shudder at 40-50mph. This has to be rotational mass and is directly related to vehicle speed, and not engine speed. I've gently applied the brakes during the shudder with no affect on the condition, but the shudder fades as soon the throttle is released. As for the highway drone/vibration, pushing in the clutch at 70mph or placing the trans in neutral has no affect on the intensity or sound. So, between the shudder at 40-50, and the drone at 60-70mph, I don't know what to make of it. All I know is I'm very frustrated at this point. I love most everything about my Golf, but this is becoming a deal breaker for long-term ownership, especially if it ends up being a DMF failure.
Denster, I was just curious if anything has changed with your car, it's been awhile since you last posted.
 
#73 · (Edited by Moderator)
any updates to this issue? I'm following this thread as my jetta 1.9 '06 is having the same symptoms. I've replaced wheel bearings (front and rear), engine mounts ( top and gearBox - dogbone is next), tie rods, struts ( front and rear), inner.CVs, ball joints, control arm bushings, etc. all without noticeable improvements. I was curious if my DMF had the same amount of play as yours....but it seams that is less and I don't believe this is the cause of my vibration.

http://youtu.be/bgPJYbtlpYY
 
#74 ·
The problem is caused by mechanical rotation at a certain rpm related to vehicle speed not engine speed. You've eliminated the engine and transmission by shifting to neutral while in the vibration range. You've also eliminated wheels and tires by trying several sets.

I would suspect axle shafts or brake discs but brake discs are relatively small and light in weight so they don't seem likely as a cause. I assume braking is smooth because you haven't mentioned shaking when brakes are applied.

What else is rotating at highway speed other than axle shafts? I don't know of anything else that could cause it. I think one of your posts stated you feel it in the steering wheel and chassis so it is almost certainly caused by a front wheel. Perhaps someone has struck a curb with one of the front wheels slightly bending an axle.

Can you get the dealer to lift the car and front wheels slightly off the shop floor and run the engine and drivetrain up to the speed range where you feel the vibration? Perhaps you could identify a wheel and tire assembly that is hopping.
 
#75 ·
The problem is caused by mechanical rotation at a certain rpm related to vehicle speed not engine speed. You've eliminated the engine and transmission by shifting to neutral while in the vibration range. You've also eliminated wheels and tires by trying several sets.

...
Is not that simple to eliminate a vibration induced by a bad DMF. This vibration could be present at any speed, but only felt at certain vehicle speeds, when this is combined with road/tire vibrations.


What else is rotating at highway speed other than axle shafts? I don't know of anything else that could cause it. ...
the differential ;)
 
#76 ·
updates:

I've just ordered a new DMF. ( LuK 600001600 )

in the meanwhile I've done some more research trying to locate the cause of my vibrations.

take a look (switch to HD) :

neutral:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9AQaWzXo0c

1st:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJUH40V7Hec

4th:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVJvkjmi2fE

5th:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVmVRfBju9E

overview:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnXnC1AmCDc

left axle:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFISj4nB8bI

right axle:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTYj-VD3P4Q
 
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