2006 VW Jetta BRM TDI DSG to 5-speed manual swap/ conversion

Discussion in 'Mk5 VW Jetta, Sportwagen, and Audi A3 TDI forum' started by pedaltheglobe, Jan 24, 2016.

  1. pedaltheglobe

    pedaltheglobe New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2013
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    Car:
    2006 MKV Jetta TDI RIP:2010 MK5 TDI(flood loss) Sold:2000 and 2003 Mk4 Jetta TDI Parted out: 2003 Jetta TDI
    Location:
    Jamestown, OH
    Mods:
    2006 BRM TDI DSG to 5-speed manual swap, GLI grille, upgraded wheels, ST coilovers, Android head unit
    I started the swap this weekend. I got the DSG removed tonight. Once everything was unbolted on the transmission and I attempted to lower it the passenger side drive flange was binding on the engine and the drivers side drive flange was binding on the control arm. Every thread and video I have ran across advised to either remove the control arm/subframe or pull the radiator and shift the engine forward. I found a much easier way my friends. I SIMPLY REMOVED BOTH DRIVE FLANGES and the trans literally lowered right out of the car.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2016
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  2. xeno555

    xeno555 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
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    Car:
    2012 TDI Tech Package 6mt
    Location:
    Mile High
    Mods:
    Malone Stage II. Rawtek 3" from Turbo to Tail. Slammed on Koni. TSW Nurmburg Rims. Whiteline Sway & Ends. Panzer Plate.
    How are you going to overcome the different gear ratio from a gas/diesel transmission.
     
  3. pedaltheglobe

    pedaltheglobe New Member

    Joined:
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    Car:
    2006 MKV Jetta TDI RIP:2010 MK5 TDI(flood loss) Sold:2000 and 2003 Mk4 Jetta TDI Parted out: 2003 Jetta TDI
    Location:
    Jamestown, OH
    Mods:
    2006 BRM TDI DSG to 5-speed manual swap, GLI grille, upgraded wheels, ST coilovers, Android head unit
    Keithuk merged a previous thread where I was considering using a gas engine manual transmission. I knew it would confuse people so I sent Chitty a message last night asking if he could change the title to what is going on here. I ended up sourcing a manual transmission from an 06 tdi. How I was planning to use a gas engine manual trans was to swap 5th gear.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2016
  4. chittychittybangbang

    chittychittybangbang Administrator

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    2006 Jetta TDI
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    OK, I moved it to a new thread.
     
  5. pedaltheglobe

    pedaltheglobe New Member

    Joined:
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    Car:
    2006 MKV Jetta TDI RIP:2010 MK5 TDI(flood loss) Sold:2000 and 2003 Mk4 Jetta TDI Parted out: 2003 Jetta TDI
    Location:
    Jamestown, OH
    Mods:
    2006 BRM TDI DSG to 5-speed manual swap, GLI grille, upgraded wheels, ST coilovers, Android head unit
    Ok so I made some more progress this weekend. Shifter, clutch, and clutch pedal are installed. I'm not going to do a total DIY as some of the information is readily available online as DIYs such as how to remove the DSG, how to remove/install shifter, how to change the clutch, and how to to reinstall a manual trans after clutch change. I will note some things specific to the swap and some shortcuts I have found in regards to the above DIYs.

    1. To remove the DSG you DO NOT need to shift the engine forward, shift/pull the radiator, or drop the subframe as some manuals and online tutorials describe. Simply remove the drive axle flanges from the DSG and it will easily go out the bottom.

    2. After removing the 6 M12 bolts from the DMF it still did not want to come off the crankshaft even with pulling and prying. I had to tap the sides of it with a hammer in a circular pattern to break it free.

    3.The shifter was the biggest pain so far in the swap. The 4 nuts that hold it in place are in the cabin and it drops out of the bottom. It would be much easier to swap the shifter with a lift. Optimally you would unbolt the exhaust at both the turbo and the clamp before the catalytic converter and then remove the headshield. The clamp at the turbo was giving me trouble so I unclamped the exhaust before the cat and was able to scoot it over enough to bend the heatshield and swap the shifter. I don't recommend this route because it's going to be difficult to straighten up the heatshield due to how much I had to bend it.

    4. The automatic had the access hole already in the firewall along with the studs to install the clutch pedal. There is a plastic plug that pops right out of the firewall. Even the sound deadening in the cabin was already perforated for the clutch pedal. No cutting was required.

    5. The brake pedals ARE DIFFERENT between the automatic and manual. You will need a brake pedal from a manual trans car.

    At this point I still need to install the trans and axles, button everything up, bleed the clutch, and then do the wiring and coding of the ECU.

    Picture of clutch pedal installed and also differences in brake pedals. The uninstalled pedal in this pic is a brake pedal from a manual trans car. A special tool is required to remove the clip that holds the rod/ball from the brake booster to the brake pedal. I was able to use two small screwdrivers on each side of the clip to remove it without the special tool. Also note that if your car is built after Nov 2005 you will not need to swap over the brake switch as it is mounted on the master cylinder. Cars built before that had the brake switch on the brake pedal.
    [​IMG]

    Perforated sound deadening material and plug from firewall for clutch pedal.
    [​IMG]

    Clutch pedal access hole is directly next to the brake booster. The brake master cylinders appear to be the same between automatic and manual. Just cut off the nipple on the side of the master cylinder reservoir and run the hose to the clutch pedal master cylinder.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2016
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  6. Rastaforte

    Rastaforte New Member

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    06 TDI Jetta 02Q 6-spd manual
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    Loomis, CA
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    Hi pedaltheglobe,

    Curious if you were able to make any more progress on your conversion - did you find some problems that your currently trying to work around? Or did you discover a showstopper?

    I have a 2006 BRM DSG that I'm looking into doing this same conversion.
    Thanks!
     
  7. Rastaforte

    Rastaforte New Member

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    Loomis, CA
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  8. Rastaforte

    Rastaforte New Member

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    There is ALOT of guys doing the auto to manual MKIV swap using a kit provided by ryanp over on another forum but unfortunately I haven't found any information yet on any DSG-specific transmissions for the MKV.

    Another user over on that forum boertje has written up a pretty detailed 45 page pdf showing the steps including the ECU stuff. Even though this is for the auto to manual MKIV, he does go into briefly wiring issues for conversion on a DSG for a 6/2005+ on page 33 (important: he is going off the Bentley manual and not an actual swap)
     
  9. Rastaforte

    Rastaforte New Member

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    Ongoing...
  10. Rastaforte

    Rastaforte New Member

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  11. pedaltheglobe

    pedaltheglobe New Member

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Car:
    2006 MKV Jetta TDI RIP:2010 MK5 TDI(flood loss) Sold:2000 and 2003 Mk4 Jetta TDI Parted out: 2003 Jetta TDI
    Location:
    Jamestown, OH
    Mods:
    2006 BRM TDI DSG to 5-speed manual swap, GLI grille, upgraded wheels, ST coilovers, Android head unit
    I guess I left everyone hanging. My apologies. I have put around 1500 miles on the car since the swap and I can confirm it can be done. I still have a few bugs to workout, but that is mainly because of my procrastination and nothing to do with any impossibilities of the swap itself. I have yet to wire up the cruise control and do have a check engine light and traction control light due to the ecu and abs module searching for the DSG trans. Tuners have quoted me around $300 to reflash the ECU to a manual. Another option is to buy a manual ECU and have the immobilizer defeated. The car runs great even without doing that and as far as getting the car to run the wiring is beyond simple. I will add detailed info in the next few days.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2016
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  12. Rastaforte

    Rastaforte New Member

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    Car:
    06 TDI Jetta 02Q 6-spd manual
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    Loomis, CA
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    Ongoing...
    <phew> that's really, really really...
    great to hear!

    I was particularly concerned about any issues having to be done in instrument cluster and immobilizer control units. Like any settings there beyond switching the cluster to a "manual" from DSG.

    I was deep into researching various options for the transmissions (0A4, 02Q.....) and feeling a little concerned it would end up being an insurmountable issue with the changes needed in those control units. What gearbox did you end up using?

    Awesome work - my MK5 is my daily driver and is out of commission until I fix it. The Landcruiser is now my daily and not the most comfortable.

    Look forward to your follow up info pedaltheglobe :D
     
  13. pedaltheglobe

    pedaltheglobe New Member

    Joined:
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    Car:
    2006 MKV Jetta TDI RIP:2010 MK5 TDI(flood loss) Sold:2000 and 2003 Mk4 Jetta TDI Parted out: 2003 Jetta TDI
    Location:
    Jamestown, OH
    Mods:
    2006 BRM TDI DSG to 5-speed manual swap, GLI grille, upgraded wheels, ST coilovers, Android head unit
    How to complete a DSG to manual swap in a Mk5 BRM TDI(Under Construction/Work in Progress-will update with pics, links, and more info)
    by Jon Tallent

    Difficulty: 4/5

    Introduction
    With proper maintenance the MK5 BRM TDI with a manual transmission can be a 500k mile car. Many have experienced failing clutch packs, DMFs, and mechatronics units with the DSG transmission. The cost the dealer charges to repair these issues can now exceed the value of the vehicle. Many still love these cars, but do not want to invest large amounts of money into a DSG transmission that can develop the same issues down the road. The manual transmissions have proven to be more reliable.

    When I decided to manual swap my 2006 MK5 Jetta BRM TDI with DSG I could not find any info online. I found many who had manual swapped MK4 TDIs and some who had manual swapped MK5 gas engine cars, but no one who had done it on a MK5 TDI. A few naysayers, that at the time I felt were more knowledgeable, told me it was not possible. When these vehicles rolled down the assembly line they had build sheets and received parts to become cars with DSG, Tiptronic, or manual transmissions. I knew it was possible and was just a matter of swapping in the correct parts.

    It is my hope that this article will help others complete this swap and keep these great cars on the road. I feel that one does not need to be a professional technician to complete this swap. If you can change a clutch and understand basic 12v DC wiring you can do this. All it takes is persistence and patience.

    Parts List

    Manual Gearbox(I used a 5-speed from a 2006 TDI, but have reason to believe 6-speed gearboxes from European TDIs and US 09-10 MK5 TDIs will work as well.)
    Clutch and Flywheel
    Clutch Fork and Bearing
    Transmission plate/shim
    Axles(Driver's side and passenger side specific to MK5 and whichever gearbox you are using)
    Transmission mount( The wishbone mounts are exactly the same between the DSG and 5-speed manual and do not need to be swapped)
    Clutch pedal with integrated switches and clutch master cylinder
    Brake pedal(you could technically use the same brake pedal-mentioned further in how to section)
    Slave Cylinder
    Hose with clamps that runs from brake master cylinder to clutch master cylinder( The brake master cylinders between auto and manual cars are exactly the same and do not need swapped)
    Line with fittings that runs from clutch master cylinder to slave cylinder
    Shifter assembly with linkage
    Starter(DSG and manual starters are different)
    Brake fluid
    Gearbox oil
    Differential oil
    Coolant(You will lose some when you disconnect and bypass the DSG trans cooler)
    Electrical wire/connectors/solder/electrical tape/shrink wrap
    Clutch pedal 4-pin electrical connector
    Reverse switch 2-pin electrical connector
    All nuts/bolts including new stretch/TTY bolts

    Procedure

    1. Safely raise and support the vehicle
    http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/jack-stand-and-lift-points-on-my-2006-vw-jetta-tdi/

    2. Remove lower shield, driver's side inner fender liner, battery box, and air box
    http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/battery-removal-and-battery-shelf-removal-on-mk5-vw-and-audi/

    http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/air-filter-box-or-filter-replacement-mk5/

    3. Remove both front wheels

    4. Remove axles
    http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/vw-jetta-axle-removal-mk5/

    5. Safely support the engine

    6. Remove DSG transmission. Most sources recommend removing the drivers side control arm or lowering/removing the subframe. The shortcut I found is to remove the transaxle drive flanges and the transmission will easily drop out of the bottom of the car. Each drive flange is held on by one 6mm allen bolt. Wedge a screwdriver between the flange and transmission to keep the flange from spinning when removing the allen bolt. Once the allen bolt is removed the flange will slide out of the transmission. I did not need a puller.

    http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/dsg-transaxle-removal-mk5-vw-jetta-tdi/

    7. Remove DSG flywheel and install clutch/manual trans flywheel. I had to tap the DSG DMF flywheel in a circular pattern for it to break free. Once removed this is a good time to inspect your rear main seal for leaks.

    http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/c...-and-clutch-fork-bearing-replacement-mk5-tdi/

    8. Swap DSG body to trans mount with manual body to trans mount. I highly recommend using new bolts as these are TTY/stretch bolts and it could be catastrophic if they failed. For a DSG to 5-speed manual the wishbone mount is the same.

    9. Remove exhaust from turbo to catalytic converter, and exhaust heat shield.

    10. Swap DSG shifter assembly with manual shifter assembly.

    11. Reinstall exhaust heat shield and exhaust.

    12. Remove under-dash trim. Larger people may want to remove the driver's seat to gain easier access to work underneath the dash.

    13. Install clutch pedal

    14. Swap brake pedal. If your car was built prior to November 2005 you will need to swap over your brake switch. If your car was built after November 2005 you do not need to swap the brake switch as it is mounted on the brake master cylinder and you will be using the same brake master cylinder.

    15. Reinstall under-dash trim

    16. Cut off nipple on the side of the brake master cylinder. Do not cut off all of the nipple. Leave part of the the flanged portion intact. Connect one end of hose with clamps on brake master cylinder and the other end on the clutch master cylinder.

    17. Install manual transmission.

    18. Install axles.

    19. Connect line from clutch pedal master cylinder to slave cylinder.

    20. Bleed the clutch.
    http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/brake-fluid-and-clutch-bleeding-and-flush-mk5-vw/

    21. Connect and adjust shift linkage.
    http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/how-to-adjust-your-vw-and-audi-manual-shifter-cables/

    22. Bypass DSG transmission cooler.

    23. Wire clutch pedal and reverse switch. See "wiring" section.

    24. Ensure everything is torqued to spec and all stretch/TTY bolts were replaced.

    25. Reinstall battery, battery tray, air box, lower shield, and driver's side inner fender liner.

    26. Install wheels

    27. Remove supports/ jack stands and lower car.

    28. Have a competent tuner flash the ECU to a manual or swap in a manual ECU and have a tuner bypass the immobilizer. See "coding" section.

    Wiring

    The MK5 5-speed manual transmission only has one electrical switch/sensor and that is the reverse switch. Unlike the MK4, the MK5 with manual transmission uses the ABS sensors to sense vehicle speed. The MK5 clutch pedal contains two switches. One is for the starter safety interlock and the other is for the cruise control.

    Clutch pedal connector
    [​IMG]

    1. Starter safety interlock-To prevent the vehicle from starting in gear the starter relay has a switched ground source. This safety mechanism is present in both the DSG and manual transmission. On the DSG this comes from the purple wire with black stripe at the DSG electrical connector. Simply grounding this wire will allow the vehicle to start. However, it will start in any gear if this is done. This can create safety issues if one forgets the clutch starter safety switch has been bypassed or an unsuspecting new driver of the vehicle is unaware. Connect this wire to one side of the clutch pedal switch and the other side to a chassis ground. This will prevent the vehicle from starting unless the clutch pedal is depressed which is normal operation for a vehicle that came factory with a manual transmission.

    (Note that the car will start and run just by completing step 1 and without completing steps 2, 3, and flashing of the ECU.)

    2. Cruise control-This step is not required for the vehicle to operate but is required for cruise control to be functional. The clutch pedal has a second switch that lets the ECU know the clutch pedal has been depressed. More on this later...

    3. Reverse switch-This step is not required for the vehicle to operate but is required for the vehicle reverse lights to function. The switch lies on top of the manual gearbox and is engaged when the shifter is placed in the reverse position. It uses a simple two wire connector. More on this later....

    Coding/ Flashing

    Unlike the MK4 platform the MK5 cannot be coded from auto to manual simply with VCDS. You will need to either have your ECU flashed to that of a manual transmission by a competent tuner or buy a manual ECU and have the immobilizer defeated. Note that this is not required for the car to run, but you will have a service engine light, traction control light, and will not have cruise control or traction control. I have so far driven 1500 miles with the original non-tuned/non-flashed ECU and have experienced zero issues besides pesky warning lights and no traction/cruise control. I assume zero risk if you go this route as the safer method is to have traction control. I plan on having my ECU flashed and will update when it is done.

    Cluster before flashing of ECU-Check engine light and traction control light due to ECU and ABS modules not recognizing the DSG as present.(Note-TPMS light is unrelated to the swap. There was a faulty TPMS sensor.)
    [​IMG]

    Final thoughts/ Conclusion

    Thanks
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2016
  14. Rastaforte

    Rastaforte New Member

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    +pedaltheglobe .... Really appreciating the write-up!
     
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  15. chittychittybangbang

    chittychittybangbang Administrator

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    Nice writeup, I've created a wiki article that anyone can edit here: http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/how-to-complete-a-dsg-to-manual-swap-in-a-mk5-jetta-tdi/ Thanks for formatting it and linking to the correct articles too!

    The Edit button is in the upper right of the page. For FAQ articles, try to keep the resources like articles or pics here. If you upload any pics directly to the article, the pics won't be broken if they ever move their source. Here's how to do that if you're not sure: http://www.myturbodiesel.com/threads/how-to-upload-and-post-pictures-videos-or-attach-files.617/ You can even drag-drop the pics into the edit box as long as they're not too big.
     
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  16. Rastaforte

    Rastaforte New Member

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    Car:
    06 TDI Jetta 02Q 6-spd manual
    Location:
    Loomis, CA
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    Ongoing...
    Looks like I'm going to go with a 6 speed on my MK5 Jetta BRM - choice between 5 or 6 speed simply coming down to what was available.
    I will document as I do that swap so we'll have information for that gearbox.
     
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  17. pedaltheglobe

    pedaltheglobe New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2013
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    Car:
    2006 MKV Jetta TDI RIP:2010 MK5 TDI(flood loss) Sold:2000 and 2003 Mk4 Jetta TDI Parted out: 2003 Jetta TDI
    Location:
    Jamestown, OH
    Mods:
    2006 BRM TDI DSG to 5-speed manual swap, GLI grille, upgraded wheels, ST coilovers, Android head unit
    The vehicle was successfully flashed today, all DSG related error codes are now gone, and the traction control is now functional. Thanks Dan at C's Autohaus in Dayton, OH! I will update the write-up soon...
     
  18. Rastaforte

    Rastaforte New Member

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    That's awesome pedaltheglobe, glad you've got the car up, running and systems on-line!

    Look forward to learning which control unit(s) ended up flashed (either or all of: engine/instrument cluster-immobilizer/instrument cluster-other/ABS CU)
    Great work :)
     
  19. TonyH

    TonyH New Member

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    2006 Jetta TDI DMF
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
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    New DMF @108000 mi
    Pedaltheglobe, your determination is admirable! I replaced my broken DMF and was happy with the result. I decided to stay with the DSG. I put the money I would have spent on a conversion into suspension upgrades.
     
  20. Rastaforte

    Rastaforte New Member

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    Car:
    06 TDI Jetta 02Q 6-spd manual
    Location:
    Loomis, CA
    Mods:
    Ongoing...
    Hi, so my DSG to 6-speed manual swap is wrapping up and for most part everything has gone pretty smoothly.

    I've followed your outline and in particular the part about the starter safety interlock where we ground the DSG connector purple/black wire in order to give the starter relay its ground path.

    However, when I go to start vehicle the starter nor its relay shows any sign of life. Also, I have a steering assist warning light going on and staying on.

    I just wanted to clarify:

    You did NOT tap into any of the wires in the connector that went to the DSG shift mechanism in the center console of cab correct? (I believe the park signal from this unit is only used for locking the ignition key in steering column until DSG transmission is placed in PARK. I'm assuming you just put that connector aside and didn't tap into it)

    Also: your vehicle started fine even before you flashed any control units to indicate going from "DSG automatic" to "manual" transmission? In other words, you car started even when the control units were still set to expect a DSG transmission....

    I'm assuming I'm overlooking something simple here as opposed to a step missing in your write-up. But I still had to ask!
    I'm almost there and have alot of great pictures so I'll do a write-up once this is working.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2016

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