02 ALH very rough idle. Video/VCDS provided...

Discussion in 'VW Mk4 Jetta, Golf, New Beetle, Passat TDI forum' started by saucer, Jun 18, 2012.

  1. saucer

    saucer New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2010
    Messages:
    70
    Car:
    2010 TDI & 2002 Jetta TDI
    Nothing but issues since buying this car last fall. Hard starts/no starts through the winter, timing was off-the-chart-retarded, and now the idling is so bad the whole car shakes at stoplights.

    Replaced: Battery, fuel filter, air filters, EGR, Relay 109, CTS.

    Thanks to the help of Admin Yuri, I successfully advanced the timing one tooth on the belt this past weekend. (IP sprocket was advanced to the limits of the adjustment slots.) This made an immediate and extreme improvement with starting and smoking, but the car is still idling with rough undulations. Timing is currently bouncing around 100, but any new mechanical adjustments on the IP sprocket and the car won't start. (I might try again though.) At least it's on the chart now! :eek:

    I'm currently looking into adjusting my IQ via the hammer mod, but am still quite the n00b and am only basing this next attempt off of symptoms and cures of other posts on here.

    Here are a few the logs I took cruising around the neighborhood and then sitting at idle:


    Address 01: Engine (038 906 012 FD)

    17:45:43 Group 015: Fuel consumption
    2751 /min Engine speed
    10.0 mg/str Injected Quantity Actual
    4.00 l/h Fuel Consumption
    10.0 mg/str Injected Quantity Driver Request

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Address 01: Engine (038 906 012 FD)

    17:45:50 Group 015: Fuel consumption
    3171 /min Engine speed
    13.6 mg/str Injected Quantity Actual
    6.30 l/h Fuel Consumption
    13.6 mg/str Injected Quantity Driver Request

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Address 01: Engine (038 906 012 FD)

    17:46:01 Group 015: Fuel consumption
    2457 /min Engine speed
    23.6 mg/str Injected Quantity Actual
    8.40 l/h Fuel Consumption
    23.6 mg/str Injected Quantity Driver Request
    Monday,18,June,2012,17:46:15:35445
    VCDS Version: Release 11.11.3
    Data version: 20120401


    Address 01: Engine (038 906 012 FD)

    17:46:14 Group 015: Fuel consumption
    1953 /min Engine speed
    7.8 mg/str Injected Quantity Actual
    2.20 l/h Fuel Consumption
    7.8 mg/str Injected Quantity Driver Request
    Monday,18,June,2012,17:46:28:35445
    VCDS Version: Release 11.11.3
    Data version: 20120401


    Address 01: Engine (038 906 012 FD)

    17:46:25 Group 015: Fuel consumption
    1155 /min Engine speed
    0.0 mg/str Injected Quantity Actual
    0.00 l/h Fuel Consumption
    0.0 mg/str Injected Quantity Driver Request
    Monday,18,June,2012,17:47:21:35445
    VCDS Version: Release 11.11.3
    Data version: 20120401

    Address 01: Engine (038 906 012 FD)

    17:48:31 Group 015: Fuel consumption
    1197 /min Engine speed
    0.2 mg/str Injected Quantity Actual
    0.10 l/h Fuel Consumption
    0.0 mg/str Injected Quantity Driver Request
    Monday,18,June,2012,17:49:05:35445
    VCDS Version: Release 11.11.3
    Data version: 20120401


    Address 01: Engine (038 906 012 FD)

    17:49:04 Group 015: Fuel consumption
    1197 /min Engine speed
    0.6 mg/str Injected Quantity Actual
    0.00 l/h Fuel Consumption
    0.0 mg/str Injected Quantity Driver Request
    Monday,18,June,2012,17:49:14:35445
    VCDS Version: Release 11.11.3
    Data version: 20120401



    Address 01: Engine (038 906 012 FD)

    17:49:23 Group 015: Fuel consumption
    1113 /min Engine speed
    2.8 mg/str Injected Quantity Actual
    0.30 l/h Fuel Consumption
    0.0 mg/str Injected Quantity Driver Request




    While driving, my IQ actual/requested seemed dead on. While idling, however, my IQ actual bounces around between 0 and 2.

    I also have two fault codes:

    17970 - Quantity Adjuster (N146)
    P1562 - 35-10 - Upper Limit Reached - Intermittent
    17964 - Charge Pressure Control
    P1556 - 35-10 - Negative Deviation - Intermittent


    This is what my car is sounding like right now:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hq80W8ZvAJU

    It's hard to see the actual movement of the tach needle and the engine from the video, but my engine is jumping almost 200rpm in a "GLUG-GLUG-GLUG-GLUG" pattern. It seems like it's gasping for air or fuel and sometimes sounds like it's going to die.

    Thanks in advance for any help! After a semi-successful timing adjustment, I'm hoping I might not have to rebuild a pump just yet :p
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 20, 2012
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  2. Keithuk

    Keithuk Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    Messages:
    5,532
    Car:
    2010 Golf GTD (170) CBBB
    Location:
    Stoke on Trent, England
    VAG Error Code: 17970
    EOBD II Error Code: P1562

    Fault Location:
    Fuel Quantity Adjuster (N146) - Upper Limit Reached

    Possible Cause:
    Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL)(K83) ON.
    Reduced Power.
    Engine jerking.

    Fuse(s) faulty.
    Wiring and/or Connector(s) from/to Fuel Quantity Adjuster (N146) faulty.
    Fuel Quantity Adjuster (N146) not adjusted.
    Fuel Quantity Adjuster (N146) blocked/faulty.

    Possible Solutions:
    Check Fuse(s).
    Check Wiring and/or Connector(s) from/to Fuel Quantity Adjuster (N146).
    Check/Adjust Fuel Quantity Adjuster (N146).
    Check/Replace Injection Pump.

    Special Notes:
    On the 1.9L ALH TDI engine:
    The Fuel Quantity Adjuster (N146) should ohm test between 0.5 and 2.5 Ohms.
    With the coolant above 85° C, MVB 001, Field 3 should read between 1.45 to 2.0 Volts.


    VAG Error Code: 17964
    EOBD II Error Code: P1556

    Fault Location:
    Charge Pressure Control - Negative deviation

    Possible Cause:
    Reduced power output.
    Limp mode.

    Boost Pressure too Low.
    Hoses/Pipes incorrectly connected, disconnected or leaking.
    Charger Pressure Control defective.
    Variable Nozzle Turbo (VNT) nozzles stuck.
    Solenoid Valve for Boost Pressure Control (N75) defective.

    Possible Solutions:
    Check Hoses/Pipes to/between Components.
    Check Solenoid Valve for Boost Pressure Control (N75).
    Check / Clean / Replace Charge Pressure Control.
    Check / Clean mechanism for variable nozzles.

    As taken from my http://www.myturbodiesel.com/forum/f9/free-eobd-ii-error-codes-software-2919/
  3. saucer

    saucer New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2010
    Messages:
    70
    Car:
    2010 TDI & 2002 Jetta TDI
    Would my VCDS connection errors lead you to believe this might be more of an electrical/fuse issue than a loose hose? Would a loose hose/vac leak cause any other symptoms or codes? I would greatly any advice on checking hoses, as I've put eyes on hands on everything I can reach, but am not sure if there are any usual suspects hidden within the bay... like the N75 valve I've seen mentioned before and am about to research.

    Thanks so much for the information!
  4. saucer

    saucer New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2010
    Messages:
    70
    Car:
    2010 TDI & 2002 Jetta TDI
    Tried the hammer mod this morning, which made a mild improvement in the severity of the shudder. My IQ is bouncing all over the place at idle though... which I assume isn't good. Anything outside of the default adaptation (32768) grays out the Test button and increases the shudder when saved.

    I'm still getting ERROR: Group 01 Not Available when I try to check my timing via Basic Settings. I'm also seeing my N75 Charge pressure either reading 0.0% or about 99%. I have no idea what this means but found it strange it was either extreme when I was looking around through the settings.

    I also reassembled my case pressure relief valve -which had completely fallen apart inside the pump... but it didn't seem to make a difference either :(

    Also should note that I cleared the codes and after driving around for a bit, have seen the return of the two mentioned above but nothing else.

    I also have consistent air bubbles flowing through my fuel line to the IP. They seem to increase and decrease depending on which way I mechanically adjust my IP, but never disappear. I've read this might be due to the advanced timing, but just thought I'd mention it.

    I'll be taking a look at the QA as soon as I can figure out how to get that triangular bolt out...
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 19, 2012
  5. saucer

    saucer New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2010
    Messages:
    70
    Car:
    2010 TDI & 2002 Jetta TDI
    Not sure what this could mean, but while testing my MAF today, I redlined a few times at idle and blew a crap load of soot out of the tailpipe. I now have a black stain on my driveway, haha.

    The car has been in limp mode for several weeks so I may need to climb some hills to clean out the exhaust...?
  6. Keithuk

    Keithuk Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    Messages:
    5,532
    Car:
    2010 Golf GTD (170) CBBB
    Location:
    Stoke on Trent, England
    It sounds to me like you need an Italian tune up. ;)
  7. YMZ

    YMZ Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2010
    Messages:
    1,946
    Car:
    Jetta 2003, Golf 2001
    Location:
    Latitude 44.407959, longitude -76.018369.
    Often due to an air leak around the fuel filter... usually at the plastic thermostatic "T"...

    Yuri
  8. tressindar

    tressindar New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2012
    Messages:
    1
    Car:
    2000 Volkswagen Golf TDI
    Man, your s*#& is F-ed UP! I'm having similar problems. I have replaced my injection pump and reset the injected quantity, both of which made significant improvements but it still starts hard, smokes for a short while and idles rough when "cold" (starting at around 10-30º C). Did you figure anything out?
  9. saucer

    saucer New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2010
    Messages:
    70
    Car:
    2010 TDI & 2002 Jetta TDI
    Yeah I finally threw in a "new" IP that runs like a top. All codes have disappeared!
  10. Mastef76

    Mastef76 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2012
    Messages:
    9
    Car:
    Audi A3 8L 1.9TDi AGR
    what is the original amount injected?

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