how far can a diesel be driven on Gasoline?

[zymurg]

I am the satisfied owner of a 2011 Audi A3 TDI. I picked up the car via Audi's European Delivery program, and started it driving it Stateside in January of 2011. I've been driving for a year now and absolutely love it.

My question is regarding a diesel car that I rented in Europe a couple of months ago in one of the former Eastern-Bloc countries. I rented a Fiat 5-speed with a 1.3L turbodiesel and drove for somewhere over 1000 miles, mostly on the highway, and filled the tank 3 times. I returned the car to the airport where I had picked it up 9 days earlier, with a full tank of fuel. The woman at counter asked me which parking spot I had left in, and said it should be in a different spot. She left us standing at the counter, went out and reparked the car in a different spot, made note of the odometer reading, came back a closed out the paper work. At home a few weeks later, I checked my credit card activity on-line and noticed an extra charge for about $200 US from the car rental agency about a week after we returned the car. We made an international phone call to the airport counter and got the same woman who had checked our car in. We asked what the extra $200 charge was for. She said it was for incorrect fuel. She said we returned the car with gasoline in the tank instead of diesel. We scanned the fuel pump receipt from the last filling which shows that fuel dispensed was "eurodiesel" and I also noted the odometer reading at filling time on the receipt. I emailed it her and she would have it investigated. We did not hear anything back for a few weeks and called back. We had to email a scanning of the receipt again and someone from the main office would contact us. We finally got an email yesterday from a fellow explaining that they stand by the charge. He attached several receipts showing what they had to do to fix the problem. (This next part of their storyline does not make sense to me). He explained that when went to start the car to take it to a carwash, they could not start the car and had a mechanic look at it. The mechanic said it was gasoline was put in the tank. His first receipt shows a charge for about 9.3L of diesel fuel, supposedly so they could get it started and driven to a repair place. He said luckily there wasn't any damage done and the 2nd receipt shows a 'repair charge' for draining the tank. The 3rd receipt shows a charge for about 37L of diesel fuel. So these charges total the $200 that they charged us.

The night before I returned the car, I filled the tank and got the receipt at the pump, and wrote down the odometer reading on the receipt. It's something I always do, even here at home because I record the fuel cost, fuel amount and odometer readings in an Excel spreadsheet. I do this for all my cars to keep track of costs, and an eye on the fuel economy. I had also written down the same receipt the odometer from the previous filling. I was able to calculate the fuel economy of the rental by dividing the difference in odometer readings, by how much fuel I put in. ( I always fill the tank until the pump kicks off, and never give it an extra squeeze to top up). I calculated that that last tankful of fuel gave me about 45MPG.

Based on the odometer reading on this receipt and what the woman recorded at the airport when we checked the car in, I drove 30km ( about 18 miles), with almost all of that distance driven the morning back the airport, with 5 adults, and baggage for 4 in the car.
Would I have been able to drive 18 miles of mostly city driving with 5 adults on board, with a full tank of gasoline in diesel car and not have the engine stop working?

The receipts that were emailed to me are all dated 4 days after I dropped the car off at the airport.
I don't know if a rental car would sit an at busy airport and not be rented for 4 days.
We emailed the fellow back as soon as we got his email and asked to make arrangments to speak with him on the phone at his convenience. But alas, he is very busy and wouldn't be able to speak with us until Jan 23 ( we got that reply from him on Jan 11).

So, back to my quandry.

They assert that I put gasoline in the tank.
( I say I didn't. I drive a diesel here in the States, I'm careful at filling time).
(I drove it 30km - 18 miles, after the tank was filled. Could that car go that far with the wrong fuel?)

He mentioned that "this happens all the time".
(Could this be a way to make an easy $200 ? I'm a 'rich' American who is not used to diesel, made a common mistake, and cannot come back to dispute the claim in person).

I'm hoping they making an honest mistake. Did they rent the car to someone else after me, and that person really was the one to put wrong fuel in? The receipts he emailed me show time stamps 4 days after I returned the car, but no odometer readings to support their argument.

If the car would not start because of wrong fuel, would they be able to put 9L ( about 2 gals US) of diesel into it, and then start it and drive it to a garage for draining. (They don't show a towing or trailering charge ).

I'm hoping to hear from someone who has driven a diesel with gasoline in the tank, or a mechanic who has seen the results of this, to find out if it is possible to drive 18 miles with gasoline and not notice it. ( The engine ran absolutely fine the 9 days I had it, including that last 18 miles).

Whenever we've communicated with these people, either by email or by phone, we've been very calm and polite, and careful not to come across as hostile. On their end, they've been a bit evasive.
As I mentioned above, we asked to speak with the fellow on the phone, but he wants to put us off for almost 2 weeks. I'd like to convince them that they've made a mistake and to return our money.
I've already contacted my credit card company to find out if I could dispute this. They said yes, but suggested that I do try to work it out with rental first.

Does anyone have any suggestions, advice, or comments?

Zy

[momeara]

I think they are trying to take you for a ride. I would dispute the additional charge on the CC ASAP.

[chudzikb]

I smell a scam. Credit card company is the correct venue to challenge.

[YMZ]

Originally Posted by zymurg

Would I have been able to drive 18 miles of mostly city driving with 5 adults on board, with a full tank of gasoline in diesel car and not have the engine stop working?

Depends on how much gasoline was mixed in with the remaining Diesel left in the tank...

I hope you enjoyed the seafood on your trip, as this sounds fishy...

Yuri

(PS: given your username... did you find any interesting beers over there?)

[zymurg]

My last fill was about 37-38L which is about the same as it was on previous fill ups when the fuel light came on.
The Fiat handbook says the tank capacity was about 42L? if remember correctly. So let's say it would be 85-90% gasoline. I just called my Audi dealer here. He told me the Audi's have some sort of 'weight' sensor that locks the start up cycle out. He said they sent one of their drivers out in a new A3 TDI to be topped up. It was about 3/4 full with diesel, and the guy topped it off with gasoline. He had to call his boss and get the car trailered back. The starting cycle would not initiate. So it must somehow read the specific gravity of the fuel ? May be that's what he meant when he said it "senses the weight of the fuel". He said all diesels should have this feature now. I told him that I got a 2-3 year old Fiat, but he says he would be surprised if it did not have that safety feature. I also spoke with a mechanic from over there. He said that if the car started the car at all, it would actually be better if were all gasoline because it would shut down almost immediately. There would be more damage done if were say 75% diesel/ 25% gasoline and it would run for a few minutes or for a short and do more damage.

Yes the beers are better over there. Even when we buy European beers over here, they're a special brew for 'american' tastes. The seafood was great too. We were on the Adriatic coast for while.

Zy

[chittychittybangbang]

That's news to me. I checked the parts catalog and I cannot see anything like that on the audi A3. The Audi Q7 and Touareg do have a weight sensor in the adblue tank to make sure you don't add water or something else to the exhaust fluid. If you did it wouldn't pass emissions so they used this sensor to prevent that condition. I haven't heard of a similar sensor for the Audi diesel fuel tank. If the person who you talked to was a service writer or salesman (likely) and not a mechanic you might as well be talking to any person off the street...because most of them don't have a clue what they're talking about. I could be wrong too but I haven't heard of this and can't find any evidence.

[3waygeek]

The A3 does have a gasoline sensor -- it's called the HPFP

[Keithuk]

Originally Posted by 3waygeek

The A3 does have a gasoline sensor -- it's called the HPFP

The High Pressure Fuel Pump (HPFP) is diesel.

[old bear]

I'd say you'd blow up a diesel WAY before 18 miles....methinks you're being taken for a ride....

[Aseras]

It wouldn't run that long, not 18 miles. If it ran all the way there it surely would have started. A gas engine can run on a significant dilution of diesel for quite a while IF the engine is HOT.

The most likely issue her is some lot jockey topped off the tank ( IE filled it until it spilled out the neck ) with gas hoping to say you didn't fill the tank all the way ( a VERY common rental scam ) and nail you for a fuel charge.

I'd dispute the charges and even call the local police there and open a report for fraud.