vag'ed timing says it's too retarded

[shagpal]

I just purchased a 2001 golf, and hooked up the vag-com to read the timing, but the timing is apparently too retarded to plot.

I searched the forum on how to set the timing, but apparently, I don't have any posts, so I can't access the write-up pages.

now I have a post.

but anyone that can help point me to the right information would be greatly appreciated.

[Vent5]

If the timing is too retarded to plot it's way too far off. http://www.myturbodiesel.com/forum/f...8-2003-a-2976/ This is what you seek. A little goes a long way so adjust the sprocket little by little. Make sure you use a torque wrench because I read of someone who snapped the sprocket bolts.

[shagpal]

okay, loosened the 3x 13mm sprocket bolts. 2 were stretch, one was busted (previous owner had someone put in the timing belt), so I purchased new multiuse bolts and replaced each one.

now, the problem I'm having is that when I turn the 22mm center nut connected to the IP pump shaft clockwise to advance the timing, the sprocket will not slide under pressure. do I need to hit the sprocket and plate w/ some wd40, PB blaster, or something to get it moving? I dunno if something is on too tight, but I have not tried to loosen anything other than those 3x 13mm sprocket bolts one at a time.

any advice to get the sprocket to slide to advance the timing?

[chittychittybangbang]

Yes, it's probably too far off to graph.

Make sure that the 22mm center nut isn't rotating and loose. There's no key holding the sprocket onto the shaft - it's press fit on. Technically speaking, the sprocket doesn't move since it's on the belt. The hub (injection pump shaft) that the sprocket is bolted to moves. The 3x 13mm bolts have to be loose at the same time. If they're too loose it can move too much and you go from one extreme to another. If they're too tight it won't move.

[shagpal]

okay, I advanced the timing all the way, but the vag-com timing graph shows it's still too retarded, so I am too retarded one tooth on the timing belt.

I purchased it this way, so is there an easy fix to move that tooth, or am I gonna have to go thru the whole TB process again.

please advise. thanks.

[Growler]

did you adjust it a little at a time? was the line showing off the top of the graph, or did it even show on the graph at all?

if there is a yellow line going all the way thru the graph, you need to retard the timing by rotating the large 22mm nut/shaft counter clockwise.

if the yellow line is at the bottom or not showing on the graph at all, you need to advance the timing by rotating the nut/shaft clockwise.

in little steps at a time this is a VERY FINE adjustment. like a typical 1 foot long 22mm wrench moving it 1/8-14" at a time on the end away from the nut is probably making it move too much if the yellow lines are showing on the graph at all.

if your center nut does not want to turn inside the outer gear, that means that the bolts were overtightened and the gear has been deformed and crushed into the hub of the pump. best fix for that is to loosen the TB system and remove the gear to check for deformation. but that is extreme and should only be done if you are comfortable with setting the timing on a TDI. its a tricky process and there is a lot of room for errors.

there is a guy on TDIClub names Matt98_AHU. he is in California and is willing to travel if you get into a bind.

Best of luck.

[shagpal]

advanced timing all the way, and timing graph shows lines way below the red bottom line on the vag-com timing graph.

Originally Posted by Growler

did you adjust it a little at a time? was the line showing off the top of the graph, or did it even show on the graph at all?

if there is a yellow line going all the way thru the graph, you need to retard the timing by rotating the large 22mm nut/shaft counter clockwise.

if the yellow line is at the bottom or not showing on the graph at all, you need to advance the timing by rotating the nut/shaft clockwise.

in little steps at a time this is a VERY FINE adjustment. like a typical 1 foot long 22mm wrench moving it 1/8-14" at a time on the end away from the nut is probably making it move too much if the yellow lines are showing on the graph at all.

if your center nut does not want to turn inside the outer gear, that means that the bolts were overtightened and the gear has been deformed and crushed into the hub of the pump. best fix for that is to loosen the TB system and remove the gear to check for deformation. but that is extreme and should only be done if you are comfortable with setting the timing on a TDI. its a tricky process and there is a lot of room for errors.

there is a guy on TDIClub names Matt98_AHU. he is in California and is willing to travel if you get into a bind.

Best of luck.

[Growler]

you will need to borrow, buy or fabricate your own timing belt tools to do the process below.

there are shortcuts and ways to improvise the tools, but its best if you can get ahold of the correct ones.

once you have the proper lockdown tools for the timing belt system. Cam lock, pump pin, tensioner pin wrench, cam pulley puller, and counterhold tool, you can do the following...

Remove the 90* elbow going into the intake,
remove the upper timing belt cover
remove the valve cover
remove the vacuum pump,

Then you need to set the car to TDC thru the inspection window on the flywheel end.

lock down the cam, lock down the pump, make sure the flywheel is on TDC thru the inspection window, loosen the tensioner and pop the cam pulley loose from the cam with the puller ir the use of a punch thru the plastic backing plate on the outside rim of the pulley... DO NOT HIT THE CAMSHAFT with a stray hammer blow if you go this route

with the engine rotated to TDC in the inspection window, the cam pulley loose and the camshaft locked on the vac pump end, you can lock the injection pump with the pin, loosen the 3 pump pulley bolts and skip the pump pulley one tooth on the pump in the direction that will get you some adjustment in the advanced direction ( so turn the pulley opposite of the way you were turning the nut on the pump with the wrench)

once you get the pump pulley skipped one tooth, you can then reset the tensioner in the clockwise direction with a little mirror to make sure its lined up properly.

with the tensioner reset properly, you can then tighten the cam pully to 40 ft-lb while counterholding the cam pulley so it doesnt turn the engine. you want to be double checking the crank is on TDC thru the flywheel inspection hole after each step. you do not want it to move. if it does, loosen both the cam bolt, pop it loose from the taper, loosen the pump pulley bolts and readjust the crank to TDC. (in other words, dont let it move~! its a PITA to fix it)

with the crank set to TDC, the Cam pulley tightened to 40 ft-lb and the 3 pump bolts tightened on a locked injection pump, you are all set to pull the locks, put the vac pump back on make sure the tensioner is still set properly, double check the tightness of the tensioner nut, and that the arm is in the hole it fits in and put the valve cover and reconnect the intake piping.

THEN you can restart the car and see where the timing is.

make adjustments as needed.

best of luck. hope you are handy and comfortable with your tools.