Buying a Jetta SportWagen - which transmission would you recommend for ME?

[Aaron Butler]

Originally Posted by speedracer1407

Not sure why you'd want to shift into neutral. An idling engine is still burning fuel, while coasting down in gear burns no fuel at all.

Aha, yes. Diesels...

Thanks to all for the input - it's greatly appreciated. I have my mind made up and will be getting a manual. If all goes well, by Saturday I'll be in possession of a Candy White/Cornsilk Beige TDI with the sunroof/wheel package.

[speedracer1407]

Originally Posted by Aaron Butler

Aha, yes. Diesels...

Not to belabor the point, but this isn't unique to diesels. Any modern car with computer-controlled engine management will shut off the fuel injectors when you take your foot off the pedal while still in gear.

As far as preventing overheated brakes, well that's really only a factor in pretty extreme situations of high-speeds down steep and extended downhill grades; Eastbound HWY 70 out of the mountains into Denver comes to mind. But even then, you'd have to do something pretty insane to get significant brake fade in the Golf.

Hope your purchase works out on Saturday, you're gonna love it!

[Keithuk]

Originally Posted by sgtpeper67

or don't know how to drive a manual.....

Well I don't know how they do it in the States but in the UK if you go for your drivng test in an automatic and pass you will only be licensed to drive an automatic car. If you go for the driving test in a stick shift\manual gearbox you can drive anything manual or automatic.

Now I'm guessing but I would say that 80% of vehicles in the US are automatic, I don't mind being corrected on this. I read many comments in VW forums from users in the States saying they have bought a new Golf GTI how do you change gear with a stick shift.

[Aaron Butler]

Originally Posted by Keithuk

Well I don't know how they do it in the States but in the UK if you go for your drivng test in an automatic and pass you will only be licensed to drive an automatic car.

Driving licenses in the US are handled by the states and all 50 have their own rules. As far as I know, however, no state will differentiate a license for one type of transmission versus another.

Originally Posted by Keithuk

Now I'm guessing but I would say that 80% of vehicles in the US are automatic, I don't mind being corrected on this.

Apparently 91% of 2009 model year cars sold in the US were automatics. Somewhat ironically, American driving enthusiasts have largely rejected automated-manual/DSG/PDK types of transmissions. Some hypothesize that this is due to the lack of interest in F1 in the US. I seem to recall BMW selling manual versions of several M cars only in North America.

[fujii13]

Hey guys, had to pop in here to defend Neutral.

1) Neutral is needed for the pulse and glide technique. This is like Hypermiling 101. Much easier in a manual.

2) Obviously, being in neutral uses more fuel than leaving it in gear, with one glaring exception: If leaving your car in gear causes you to dip below your target speed, you must then accelerate to maintain speed therefore you've just wasted fuel.

Example: You're going down a long hill with a slight grade at 60MPH. If leaving the car in gear is slowing you down to where you need to accelerate to reach your target speed, you're driving inefficiently. You'd be better off leaving the car in neutral, and putting it in gear to slow you down if necessary.

I know that the instant read MPG is not the most accurate but for comparison's sake:
In gear: ---. Let's call this infinite MPG.
In neutral: 200 MPG
Accelerating to get back up to 60: 30ish MPG range. Possibly more depending on how much you've dipped below target speed.

This should be pretty obvious that leaving it in neutral for the entire duration is better than leaving it in gear and then having to dip into the 30MPG range over and over again. Think of it as a pulse then a reeeeaaallllyyy long glide.

Lastly, can we drop drop the "it's illegal in some states" defense again coasting? No one in the history of coasting has ever gotten a ticket for coasting unless it was because coasting is actually what caused them to speed, which is the real reason they got pulled over. And if you're speeding, it's your own fault.

[HRC-E.B.]

If you don't mind automatic cars, I guess the DSG would be ok. I, personally, can't stand automatics and, especially in a small, light and relatively underpowered car, much prefer the control of a manual transmission. It also is more fun to drive, in my opinion. I understand the appeal of automated manual gearboxes in cars like the Ferrari 458, which are intended to be driven aggressively on a track, and how having the blipped downshifts automated greatly simplifies the task of driving at the limit. But as far as I am concerned, I'll take a third pedal and a manual any day over any of those automated gearboxes. Plus, a manual is cheaper and easier to maintain.

[speedracer1407]

Originally Posted by fujii13

Hey guys, had to pop in here to defend Neutral.

1) Neutral is needed for the pulse and glide technique. This is like Hypermiling 101. Much easier in a manual.

2) Obviously, being in neutral uses more fuel than leaving it in gear, with one glaring exception: If leaving your car in gear causes you to dip below your target speed, you must then accelerate to maintain speed therefore you've just wasted fuel.

Example: You're going down a long hill with a slight grade at 60MPH. If leaving the car in gear is slowing you down to where you need to accelerate to reach your target speed, you're driving inefficiently. You'd be better off leaving the car in neutral, and putting it in gear to slow you down if necessary.

I know that the instant read MPG is not the most accurate but for comparison's sake:
In gear: ---. Let's call this infinite MPG.
In neutral: 200 MPG
Accelerating to get back up to 60: 30ish MPG range. Possibly more depending on how much you've dipped below target speed.

This should be pretty obvious that leaving it in neutral for the entire duration is better than leaving it in gear and then having to dip into the 30MPG range over and over again. Think of it as a pulse then a reeeeaaallllyyy long glide.

Lastly, can we drop drop the "it's illegal in some states" defense again coasting? No one in the history of coasting has ever gotten a ticket for coasting unless it was because coasting is actually what caused them to speed, which is the real reason they got pulled over. And if you're speeding, it's your own fault.

Interesting post, Fujii. I'm certainly not a hypermiler, so I'm pretty underinformed about various techniques to eek out every last MPG. What you say about using neutral in certain circumstances makes perfect sense.

I guess I was just assuming the OP meant using neutral while decelerating. But I must say, that even if I tried, I think I'd have a hard time finding the exact circumstances in which a pulse-and-glide technique using neutral would be beneficial. It probably has a lot to do with where I live (Chicago), and the lack of opportunity to cruise down long mild grades.

But I also find that the TDI offers way less engine braking than most gas-powered manual cars I've driven, so it will coast pretty well even in gear. It was one of the first things I noticed when I bought the car. I'd let off the pedal to coast down toward an exit ramp and find my self punching the brakes at corner entry, having not lost nearly as much speed as I was used to. Even downshifting more aggressively didn't yield the familiar results. I assume there are a few factors at play here. Being unthrottled, the diesel doesn't have to suck air past a partially closed throttle plate. And the gearing is, overall, MUCH taller than in my old 2000 Mazda protege, which hummed along at a frenetic 3500 RPM in 5th at 70 MPH, resulting in big engine braking off-throttle, and much more braking potential with aggressive downshifts.

Anyway, I'll give that pulse-and-glide thing a shot some time.

[Aaron Butler]

Bought the car - it's a manual

I'll be doing a proper intro post shortly. Thanks to all for the help!

[2011GolfTDI]

Originally Posted by sgtpeper67

The only reasons I can think of to get the auto is if you're physically unable or don't know how to drive a manual or spend a great deal of time in traffic.

With all of the threads we have on issues with the automatic, I'd strongly recommend the manual.

The gas mileage will be comparable if not better. The vehicle will likely be less expensive initially with lower maintanence costs over the vehicle's life. I imagine a car equipped with the auto is a little heavier?

Either way you're getting a great car.

After driving a manual transmission for 30 years, I opted for the DSG primarily because I got tired working a clutch in stop-and-go traffic. Although the DSG is certainly more expensive at purchase, resale will be higher and a DSG vehicle will appeal to a broader market of potential buyers. Another point to consider is, if you're buying a manual because you like the driving experience of a manual, the DSG is about as close to the manual driving experience as you're going to get without having to use a clutch. Like some of the other replies, I think coasting with the car in neutral doesn't make much sense. I never put my DSG in neutral, even when stopped.

[wimpog]

I completely agree. Coasting in gear quickly slows the vehicle down, but also it puts unnecessary wear on the engine and transmission. Even though no fuel is used during coasting in gear, the engine and the transmission have to rotate at higher RPMs. I do agree that in some cases (going down a steep hill at high speed) it is recommended to coast in gear to have have better control over breaking, but in most cases it is not necessary.