2010 Golf TDI 60-75 mph vibration/shaking

[Type_TDI]

I'm about a month into ownership of my used 2010 Golf TDi 6 speed manual and am still trying fix (with the dealer) a vibration that occurs between 60-75 mph. The dealer has been great in trying to help, but unfortunatley hasn't nailed the problem yet. The car has 21k miles on it. This is my first VW, but I've owned/own several Audi's and older Porsche's. I like to DIY and am used to quirky problems but this one has me stumped!

To decribe the vibration, it comes on around 60 mph, peaks around 66 mph and peaks again around 71 mph. It's in the steering wheel and the seat, it's pretty much all over the chassis. The amplitude of the vibration is dependent on the load. For example, going up a hill in 6th gear, adding throttle will amplify the vibration. In addition, on a level road in 6th gear, lightly and slowly modulating the pedal, staying +/-2 mph around one of the peak vibration speeds (say +/-2mph around 66 mph) I can keep the vibration steady. The vibration is still very noticeable between 60-75 mph, and spending 2 hours a day on the highway, it needs to go away

I've also tried putting the car into neutral starting at 75 mph and coasting down to 60 mph, the vibration is still there, but certainly less. In terms of sounds, there are no clunking, popping or banging sounds in the suspension, even if I drive a bit hard trying to amplify any issues. There is a sound that seems to oscillate with the vibrations, but it's hard to describe and it's very light. There is certainly somthing "not right" about the sound though.

Here's whats been tried/checked so far:

1. I've tried a set of 18" OEM BBS rims with 1 year old winter tires, a recently purchased set of 18" RS4 reps with Yokohamas, the OEM 16" rims/tires off our A4 and the stock 17" rims/tires(Hankook) that came with the Golf. All sets are smooth as butter on our A4 but on the Golf the shaking persists. These rims are all Audi/VW centerbore and offset so there's not wheel/hub mating issues. After trying four sets on the Golf, I'm convinced the tires/rims aren't to blame.

2. The dealer replaced the left front drive axle citing that it had a little play, didn't fix the issue at all. They also re-balanced the factory 17" wheels, no improvement. In fact after this "fix" my wheel now points slightly to the left because they probably disconnected a control arm to make room for the axle removal, then didn't bother to do an alignment afterwards.

3. I checked the tightness of the large drive axle bolts in the center of each hub, they are tight.

4. I put the car on ramps, took off the belly pan and checked every bolt I could get my hands on (control arms, ball joints, anti-roll bar, sub-frame, etc...) While underneath I also slowly rotated the tires to see if the drive axles had any strange movement. Everything seemed fine.

5. I put the car on jack stands and did the 12-6, 3-9 O'Clock pulling/pushing on the tires to see if a wheel bearing was loose or if the tie rods were sloppy, nothing I could detect. They sure shouldn't be sloppy with 20k miles on the clock.

6. Checked the motor mounts, kind of, not really sure how to check these. What I did was put the car in 1st gear on a level surface and pushed it forward and backward. The engine would rock, but I have no idea what is acceptable. Whats the likelihood an engine mount is bad at such a young age?The dog bone engine mount underneath looked fine, bolts were tight.


What else could it be? Out of round hub? Bad flywheel/harmonic balancer? Something in the transmission? Upper strut mounts? Satan?

Not much attention has been paid to the rear end yet, but I never suspected it given the depedancy on throttle position.

I'm really at a loss, and if I'm at a loss, I don't have high hopes for the dealer. Unless they have someone with plenty of experience, that would just so happen to know from the symptoms and feeling when driving the car, I'll probably be going back for months to come as they slowly replace parts.

If there's anyone here in central CT that thinks they could figure it out after driving it a bit (or if you can recommend a shop with VW "Voodoo") any help would be greatly appreciated.

[chittychittybangbang]

If you're at the vibration speed and shut the car off (it's OK since you have a manual, no ATF pumps) (just make sure there's no traffic around and that it's safe to do so), it'll probably be unchanged by your description but there's a small chance it could be related to the engine or exhaust.

It's probably not the flywheel and harmonic balancer but it's possible. I've heard of a bad flywheel very early but these are usually caught early on and more noticeable at all speeds.

There's a very remote possibility it could be related to a loose front or rear subframe. There were some issues with loose front subframes on the mk5 cars. These are normally detected when turning, not at highway speeds but perhaps yours are loose and letting the suspension shake when the car and engine reach some magical combination. Watch this video : http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-...ame/ES2102460/ If they're not loose I would rule it out.

Very unlikely it's the transmission but still remotely possible.

If it's driveline related it's prob in hub or brakes. If engine prob related to exhaust.

Possible it's satan. He/it is targeting America and specifically VW Golf TDIs.

[Aseras]

Do you know any mechanics? you could run the car on a dyno or a lift and look to see what is vibrating at speed.

[Type_TDI]

Thanks, Chitty and Aseras,

Chitty: I'll try to dump the engine when the highway is quiet. I'll need to be careful that the steering wheel doesn't lock That's a great idea in terms of isolating the root cause. Out of curiosity, how much would you expect the top of the engine to move back and forth. i.e. if you measured the travel at the top of the engine cover and to the hood latch, what type of movement would you expect? Rocking the car forward and backward in first gear gave me about 0.5 cm or so. I can push the engine back and forth with my hands and get a little movement as well. Is that normal? Or should I not be able to budge the engine?

Asearas, I wish there was a dyno accessable to me, would be great to just let the car run at highway speed and observe from the outside.

[chittychittybangbang]

Haven't tested it and can't since you have a 2010 and I don't but you should be able to move the engine a little.

[Type_TDI]

Quick update: I tried chitty's idea to kill the engine while in neutral, traveling at the speed where vibration occurs. The vibration was still there so that should eliminate the engine mounts as a problem. At this point it's got to be something in the hub assembly.

I have one more appointment with the dealer, hopefully they'll nail it this time. Otherwise I'm getting out the dial gauge and will start measuring the hubs!

[slothbar]

If you live in CT and are looking for a reputable shop with a chasis dyno give Ted a call a Janetty Racing located in Waterbury CT.

Here is a link to their site.

http://jannettyracing.com/

Good luck.

[Type_TDI]

Slothbar: perfect, that's only a 20 min drive from me. The dealership has the car today, I'll know if it's fixed on the way home this evening. Hoping for the best!

[Type_TDI]

Well, quick update is that they fixed the alignment they messed up, but the shake is still there. They had three different people drive it and none reported a shake, so now I'm the "crazy guy that comes in". They offered to take a ride with me when time permits so I can call out the shake with them, this may help.

I'm starting phase two of my own effort and will get out the dial indicator tonight to check for out of round conditions. Can't wait to figure this out!

[froudeg]

From what you describe, i suspect it's one of 2 things...

The car is not very old so i doubt very much this problem is related to the deterioration of any rubber bushes.

This oscillation you talk about -is it a sort of metal resonating noise, somewhat highish pitched and constant?

If so i suspect one your wheel bearings is damaged or on the way out - I have seen damaged wheel bearings which show no play at all when you do the wheel wobble test but are faulty and cause vibration or unusual sounds - when you get the bearing/hub assembly out and move it with your hands, it will feel/sound scratchy instead of smooth.

The other thing which brings about these sort of symptoms is a slightly sticking brake caliper guide pin. I would have a look at the guide pins - take them out, clean off any crud/rubber debris and grease them up with caliper (silicone based) grease before putting them back in (dont use copper grease as it can damage the rubber). Whilst there ensure the pads are seated properly in the caliper housing.

If the guide pins are sticking a bit the brake pads can rub slightly and with the fact that brake rotors are rarely perfectly flat you will get a noticable vibration - especially at speed, sometimes accompanied with an oscillating noise like you describe.